Bitcoin

[beerrun]

Anyone have an opinion on bitcoin ? It went over 30k today and some think it will go to 500k

 

[traquer]

Crazy shit, I got out of it (not a lot just $20k). Need to get back in on the next dip.

When Kiyosaki and others who aren't dummies are pushing it, a lot more people will get interested.

 

[pronstar]

Crazy shit, I got out of it (not a lot just $20k). Need to get back in on the next dip.

When Kiyosaki and others who aren't dummies are pushing it, a lot more people will get interested.

He’s into Bitcoin, has a lot of Bitcoin dudes on his podcast [emoji106]



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[zhandfull]

Bitcoin does nothing for me. It has become obvious that someone other than the Fed and Central Bank has figured out how to make money out of thin air. Crazy world we live in. I’ll be sticking with gold.

 

[beerrun]

I get that its a risky investment but I just met a guy that got in at 120.00 a share and now they are predicteding 500k per coin that's crazy

 

[beaverretriever]

We were way into it. Made some lost some. I am good at taking big piles of money and making small piles of money. hahaha.

 

[caribbean20]

We’ve been in it plus ethereum for about 6 years. Interesting store of value that is now more commonplace for using it as payment in ordinary transactions. It all comes down to governments printing money.

That’s why all asset classes with finite supply are inflated. Stocks, real estate and yes, Bitcoin. We are holding for the long term, fun to see how it plays out. Bitcoin appears to have reached critical mass, now constituting over 5% of total gold value.

We use Coinbase. They are well capitalized and hopefully secure.

 

[gqchris]

Yup. I am in and it is skyrocketing. I have got all my buddies in as well. It keeps rising and rising. I made some cash on XRP before their SEC lawsuit announcement. I dumped all my alt coins and all in with BTC. I use coinbase, although the purists argue its a risk. I dontbhave a cold wallet either.

I like Bitrefil, I buy gift cardswith BTC and its super easy.

 

[caribbean20]

Anyone have an opinion on bitcoin ? It went over 30k today and some think it will go to 500k

. . . and now over $33k as we speak. Hadn’t looked at it for a few days. Wow!

 

[spectras only]

I'm not a gambler type. Haven't got invested in bitcoin. Jewish friend has real gold bars in a safe, rather than gold on paper. So how's bitcoin works other than you can convert it into cash?
Some investors compare Bitcoin to gold as a potential store of value as it increases in relative worth against both the U.S. dollar and gold.

 

[Maw]

My youngest son turned me onto Dogecoin a few days ago, up 200% since we bought in. Penny stock still.

 

[Havasu blue label]

Look into crypto currency’s and look at the platfrom Kucoin

 

[77charger]

My son is into bitcoin he bought some parts when at 19k said it’s gonna climb he’s been buying more as he gets paid too.

 

[OldSchoolBoats]

I was buying BTC and ETH daily, for a few months. When I opened my account with BlockFI (interest bearing crypto wallet), I tried to transfer my Crypto holdings from Robinhood to there. Well, Robinhood IS NOT a Crypto wallet so I couldn't transfer. I had to sell my positions in both BTC and ETH and then transfer to my account and then wire to BlockFI. It fucking sucked balls, because I am paying taxes on it and my average cost was low AF, but I got all my funds into BlockFI. Now they are sitting in GUSD and making 8.6% APY. I didn't want to buy BTC or ETH on the way up. I feel like both will see a 30% pull back before heading up into where some analysts are thinking. I will buy back in then and the money is waiting, just accruing interest so I don't care.



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[Blubyu]

I parked 15k with Bitcoin back in 2016. Have a few friends who did the same. It’s crazy to watch the daily transactions right now, millions - billions of dollars getting exchanged.


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[pronstar]

Here’s a big reason why Bitcoin had a leg-up on most other crypto currencies: there’s a finite supply. Once all 21 million coins have been mined, there’s no more. This guardrail allows traders to determine a value based on supply/demand.

Nearly other coin has no cap. Which means, much like the dollar, an infinite number can be produced. Or simply made from thin air by the founders. An endless supply means supply/demand curves are junk.


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[Hammer]

Here’s a big reason why Bitcoin had a leg-up on most other crypto currencies: there’s a finite supply. Once all 21 million coins have been mined, there’s no more. This guardrail allows traders to determine a value based on supply/demand.

Nearly other coin has no cap. Which means, much like the dollar, an infinite number can be produced. Or simply made from thin air by the founders. An endless supply means supply/demand curves are junk.


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I still don’t understand bitcoin? Who places value on it, does someone say I value it’s worth at a said amount? How do you know what a product is worth in Bitcoin? Is a boat worth 50,000.00 bitcoins or 5,000.00? Is a banana worth 1/4 of a Bitcoin? What governing body says “theres no more Bitcoin to mine?” Can a hacker make his own fake crypto ?

There has to be some sort of governing body to set the value of a Bitcoin. If people don’t invest or purchase Bitcoin they are just broke now and the cash or gold no longer has value? Anyone care to answer these questions?


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[Gelcoater]

I still don’t understand bitcoin? Who places value on it, does someone say I value it’s worth at a said amount? How do you know what a product is worth in Bitcoin? Is a boat worth 50,000.00 bitcoins or 5,000.00? Is a banana worth 1/4 of a Bitcoin? What governing body says “theres no more Bitcoin to mine?” Can a hacker make his own fake crypto ?

There has to be some sort of governing body to set the value of a Bitcoin. If people don’t invest or purchase Bitcoin they are just broke now and the cash or gold no longer has value? Anyone care to answer these questions?


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+1
I don’t follow or understand any of this, I’m a simpleton
It sounds rather pyramid scheme-ish to me?

 

[Instigator]

I still don’t understand bitcoin? Who places value on it, does someone say I value it’s worth at a said amount? How do you know what a product is worth in Bitcoin? Is a boat worth 50,000.00 bitcoins or 5,000.00? Is a banana worth 1/4 of a Bitcoin? What governing body says “theres no more Bitcoin to mine?” Can a hacker make his own fake crypto ?

There has to be some sort of governing body to set the value of a Bitcoin. If people don’t invest or purchase Bitcoin they are just broke now and the cash or gold no longer has value? Anyone care to answer these questions?


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All I know is that it is another Commodity.

 

[pronstar]

I still don’t understand bitcoin? Who places value on it, does someone say I value it’s worth at a said amount? How do you know what a product is worth in Bitcoin? Is a boat worth 50,000.00 bitcoins or 5,000.00? Is a banana worth 1/4 of a Bitcoin? What governing body says “theres no more Bitcoin to mine?” Can a hacker make his own fake crypto ?

There has to be some sort of governing body to set the value of a Bitcoin. If people don’t invest or purchase Bitcoin they are just broke now and the cash or gold no longer has value? Anyone care to answer these questions?


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Same as anything else - gold, the dollar, oil - investors determine the value on the open market.

The source code for Bitcoin caps it at 21 million.

Anyone can start a coin, and many people are. But investors are wary when there’s no cap on supply, and other coins are valued accordingly (for a variety of reasons).

The beauty of Bitcoin is that is devoid of government regulation. It’s pure capitalism.

If people no longer place a value in something, like Iraqi dinar, then the value goes to zero.



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[caribbean20]

I still don’t understand bitcoin? Who places value on it, does someone say I value it’s worth at a said amount? How do you know what a product is worth in Bitcoin? Is a boat worth 50,000.00 bitcoins or 5,000.00? Is a banana worth 1/4 of a Bitcoin? What governing body says “theres no more Bitcoin to mine?” Can a hacker make his own fake crypto ?

There has to be some sort of governing body to set the value of a Bitcoin. If people don’t invest or purchase Bitcoin they are just broke now and the cash or gold no longer has value? Anyone care to answer these questions?


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I'm bored, so I'll take a crack at answering your questions.

1) The value of Bitcoin (BTC) is determined by buyers and sellers on several large crypto exchanges around the world, the biggest of which is Coinbase in the US. It is no different than a stock exchange like the NASDAQ OTC. You have a buyer that wants to buy 1 BTC, he offers $33K, if there is nobody willing to sell at that price, he increases the price to $33.5K, at which point a seller pops up and is willing to sell. That is the new price for BTC, $33.5K. The price you see for BTC is the average transaction price on a number of these exchanges.
2) To determine the product price in BTC, the seller would usually set his sales price in US $$s. For a boat, let's say its $100K. If the buyer wants to pay in BTC, all you would do is translate that $100K into how many BTCs equals $100K. In today's market, that would be about 3 BTCs.
3) The creator of BTC, Satoshi Nakamoto (a pseudonym), set the protocol for BTC in the database that only allows for a finite amount of BTC to be mined, or created. I'm not smart enough to know all of the ins and outs of the blockchain database, but that is the theory and it is believed by a number of big brains.
4) Blockchain is the infrastructure behind BTC and it prevents fake BTC.
5) No there does not need to be any governing body setting the price for BTC, just like on the NASDAQ OTC, there is no governing body setting the price for stocks. The price is set by buyers and sellers and you see average selling price.

That there is no governing body for BTC, rather it is a decentralized group of computers, open to see by anyone, that is the elegant simplicity of BTC.

 

[havasujeeper]

How did they determine that Bitcoin caps it at 21 million?

Who is to say they just don't shut down and walk away with your money?

What legal recourse does a US citizen have when they shut it down and walk away?

I have no idea about this process, but have been burnt by hundreds of get rich quick schemes, beginning with the mandatory $10k buy-ins from the old pyramid schemes in the 70's.

 

[nameisbond]

The rise in bitcoin is at the cost of the US dollar. As money flows out of the dollar and into bitcoin, it declines. The US dollar is in trouble, the only way to save it is raise interest rates. Not good. I'm buying gold, this is good for it.

 

[RiverDave]

How did they determine that Bitcoin caps it at 21 million?

Who is to say they just don't shut down and walk away with your money?

What legal recourse does a US citizen have when they shut it down and walk away?

I have no idea about this process, but have been burnt by hundreds of get rich quick schemes, beginning with the mandatory $10k buy-ins fro the old pyramid schemes in the 70's.

I don’t get how it’s stored.. apparently you store it on a flash drive or a computer.. if anything happens to the drive it’s on it’s gone forever..

 

[Hammer]

Same as anything else - gold, the dollar, oil - investors determine the value on the open market.

The source code for Bitcoin caps it at 21 million.

Anyone can start a coin, and many people are. But investors are wary when there’s no cap on supply, and other coins are valued accordingly (for a variety of reasons).

The beauty of Bitcoin is that is devoid of government regulation. It’s pure capitalism.

If people no longer place a value in something, like Iraqi dinar, then the value goes to zero.



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I don’t understand that? No government regulation? How does that work? If I buy a product from you, do I get to set the value of a single Bitcoins worth to purchase said product and we negotiate that single Bitcoin value?

There has to be some sort of governing body that sets the value of a single Bitcoin. Secondly, “who” is going to certify that governing body to say, what they set the said value of a single Bitcoin is
The “certified value”

Maybe I’m missing something?


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[Hammer]

I'm bored, so I'll take a crack at answering your questions.

1) The value of Bitcoin (BTC) is determined by buyers and sellers on several large crypto exchanges around the world, the biggest of which is Coinbase in the US. It is no different than a stock exchange like the NASDAQ OTC. You have a buyer that wants to buy 1 BTC, he offers $33K, if there is nobody willing to sell at that price, he increases the price to $33.5K, at which point a seller pops up and is willing to sell. That is the new price for BTC, $33.5K. The price you see for BTC is the average transaction price on a number of these exchanges.
2) To determine the product price in BTC, the seller would usually set his sales price in US $$s. For a boat, let's say its $100K. If the buyer wants to pay in BTC, all you would do is translate that $100K into how many BTCs equals $100K. In today's market, that would be about 3 BTCs.
3) The creator of BTC, Satoshi Nakamoto (a pseudonym), set the protocol for BTC in the database that only allows for a finite amount of BTC to be mined, or created. I'm not smart enough to know all of the ins and outs of the blockchain database, but that is the theory and it is believed by a number of big brains.
4) Blockchain is the infrastructure behind BTC and it prevents fake BTC.
5) No there does not need to be any governing body setting the price for BTC, just like on the NASDAQ OTC, there is no governing body setting the price for stocks. The price is set by buyers and sellers and you see average selling price.

That there is no governing body for BTC, rather it is a decentralized group of computers, open to see by anyone, that is the elegant simplicity of BTC.

Thanks Caribbean. I appreciate the insight. [emoji106]

What happens if Bitcoin takes over gold or the dollar? Does that mean our treasury is broke and has to buy Bitcoin from the public to operate? Do we then get paid in Bitcoin and taxed to pay for government services in Bitcoin?

If there is a set amount of Bitcoin to be mined and it is all gone what is the government going to do? Go into depression?

Just questions on general long term viability of Bitcoin.


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[Hammer]

I don’t get how it’s stored.. apparently you store it on a flash drive or a computer.. if anything happens to the drive it’s on it’s gone forever..

Another good point RD. [emoji106]


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[hallett21]

I don’t get how it’s stored.. apparently you store it on a flash drive or a computer.. if anything happens to the drive it’s on it’s gone forever..

There are online wallets too however the most secure is on a physical device.

Or you can split up to multiple wallets (multiple thumb drives, or online wallets.)


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[caribbean20]

Another good point RD. [emoji106]


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We keep our BTCs with Coinbase. They are insured:

“All digital currency that Coinbase holds in its online hot storage is insured. If Coinbase were to suffer a breach of its online hot storage, the insurance policy would pay out to cover any customer funds lost as a result.”

 

[hallett21]

I don’t understand that? No government regulation? How does that work? If I buy a product from you, do I get to set the value of a single Bitcoins worth to purchase said product and we negotiate that single Bitcoin value?

There has to be some sort of governing body that sets the value of a single Bitcoin. Secondly, “who” is going to certify that governing body to say, what they set the said value of a single Bitcoin is
The “certified value”

Maybe I’m missing something?


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You can log on 24/7 to any of the exchanges and see what a BTC is worth at that moment. Similar to buying something in silver or gold.

The value fluctuates daily on metal (granted not as much) for instance an ounce of gold could be +/- $100 depending on the day.

In the reverse you could say I’m selling my vector for 30k or .9BTC. You may even price the vector at 1BTC to insulate yourself from price fluctuations.

The “value” is based on supply and demand. There’s no governing body that can deflate or inflate the currency.


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[hallett21]

Just want to give a shout-out to @Racey

pretty sure I was in highschool when he was posting about it. At like $300 a coin. Fuck me.....


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[pronstar]

How did they determine that Bitcoin caps it at 21 million?

Who is to say they just don't shut down and walk away with your money?

What legal recourse does a US citizen have when they shut it down and walk away?

I have no idea about this process, but have been burnt by hundreds of get rich quick schemes, beginning with the mandatory $10k buy-ins from the old pyramid schemes in the 70's.

It’s open source and public, no one owns it.
That akin to saying whoever owns all the gold can walk away with it...no one person owns all the gold.

The 21 million is part of the source code, it can’t be changed.

There is no legal recourse if bitcoin’s value goes away. Just like anything else, there’s risk.

Bitcoin isn’t really an investment.
Like gold, its really a store of value.


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[pronstar]

Thanks Caribbean. I appreciate the insight. [emoji106]

What happens if Bitcoin takes over gold or the dollar? Does that mean our treasury is broke and has to buy Bitcoin from the public to operate? Do we then get paid in Bitcoin and taxed to pay for government services in Bitcoin?

If there is a set amount of Bitcoin to be mined and it is all gone what is the government going to do? Go into depression?

Just questions on general long term viability of Bitcoin.


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There is no possible way any government will allow bitcoin to take over sovereign currency. If it gets to that point, governments will simply ban bitcoin.

US maintains reserve currency status in part because US debt (and petroleum sales outside of China and Russia) must be paid in US dollars.

Ask Qaddafi what happens when you try to subvert the US dollar for another currency...


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[Hammer]

There is no possible way any government will allow bitcoin to take over sovereign currency. If it gets to that point, governments will simply ban bitcoin.

US maintains reserve currency status in part because US debt (and petroleum sales outside of China and Russia) must be paid in US dollars.

Ask Qaddafi what happens when you try to subvert the US dollar for another currency...


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Makes sense and I assumed that was the answer. Then why does Bitcoin have a value if it isnt backed by a government or a recognized organization
? It’s only as good the value someone thinks it’s worth?

Who here would take Bitcoin as a payment for a 100k boat if they owned one and it was for sale?

Or would you take cash?


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[traquer]

Good answers above. Bitcoin can be stored anywhere, even in your brain if you can trust yourself to remember a random string of 16 words, in order. If someone doesn't have your "private key" they can't do anything with your bitcoin, simple as that. If this system was hackable, someone would have done it already as there's billions of dollars worth of Bitcoin waiting to be stolen lol.

Regarding bitcoin, it will never replace currency as fiat money is the most important part of government. The US would go to nuclear war before they'd give up their currency. On the otherhand, bitcoin I think will simply become like the cash version of gold meaning it takes up little space and is anonymous. Countries like India are planning to ban it, and the US might too in the future, so the 30k price might drop to 3k, but it will never go away. That's why it's such a brilliant invention, there's no CEO to arrest, no computers to seize, it's all public but also all private at the same time.

 

[Instigator]

Who is the one that actually get the USD cash when purchasing the Bitcoin?
Sure seems more like an elaborate ponzi scheme to me.

 

[spectras only]

I don’t get how it’s stored.. apparently you store it on a flash drive or a computer.. if anything happens to the drive it’s on it’s gone forever..

Same as owning gold on paper only. When a world war brakes out, any of these schemes will collapse, but solid gold bar still buys you food.
I'm not an expert on commodities or any of these cryptos, but I think the value of gold is based on its physical existence.
That's why China bought up most of the world's gold feverishly in the past. Remember, no one is 100% sure how much gold is in Fort Knox

 

[pronstar]

Makes sense and I assumed that was the answer. Then why does Bitcoin have a value if it is backed by a government? It’s only as good the value someone thinks it’s worth?

Who here would take Bitcoin as a payment for a 100k boat if they owned one and it was for sale?

Or would you take cash?


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Bitcoin has zero government backing. It’s all public / open source.

And you’re right, its vale is determined by the market’s willingness to pay.

Countless large purchases have been done using bitcoin.

If I flipped a house that I owned outright, and was offered payment in bitcoin, I’d consider it.

But I’d rather have US dollars...for now LOL


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[zhandfull]

Is there value to Bitcoin besides simply just buying and selling it?

 

[pronstar]

Is there value to Bitcoin besides simply just buying and selling it?

It’s designed to be used as currency [emoji106]


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[caribbean20]

Same as owning gold on paper only. When a world war brakes out, any of these schemes will collapse, but solid gold bar still buys you food.
I'm not an expert on commodities or any of these cryptos, but I think the value of gold is based on its physical existence.
That's why China bought up most of the world's gold feverishly in the past. Remember, no one is 100% sure how much gold is in Fort Knox

If food is scarce, good luck selling that piece of metal for food

 

[pronstar]

If food is scarce, good luck selling that piece of metal for food

That’s the flaw of any currency instrument.

The value of literally anything is determined by people, nothing has inherent value.

Pegging currency to gold is really no different than fiat currency.

Even when we were on a gold standard, we still had fractional reserve requirements. Not every dollar in circulation had an entire dollars worth of gold behind it. And those fractions could get as small as the government wants.


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[Big B Hova]

All I know is the prison wallet is the most secure place to store anything.

 

[Kachina26]

All I know is the prison wallet is the most secure place to store anything.

Unless you got the shits.

 

[pronstar]

All I know is the prison wallet is the most secure place to store anything.

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[DrunkenSailor]

Lots of bitcoin transactions on the dark web. Guns, people, drugs... This is the basis for bitcoins value. Silk road was one of the first and probably most infamous but there have been many others.

Bitcoin transactions on the dark web were roughly 250mm in 2012, 872mm in 2018 and predicted to be over 1bn in 2019 according to chinalysis. Combine an anonymous source of payment with an anonymous marketplace and this is what you get. Supposedly illicit bit coin transactions are dropping in favor of other currencies but I have to think the anonymity of the currency is still largely driving the volume. Perfect way to launder cash.

 

[spectras only]

If food is scarce, good luck selling that piece of metal for food

Good luck paying farmers with your Bitcoin
War and conflict continues to have a major impact on gold prices and perceived values. You only have to look at the impact of recent events in Iraq and Afghanistan, combined with the terrible events of 9/11, to see how markets and gold prices react.
The continuing belief that gold is a safe-haven in times of trouble or unrest, is probably borne out by the fact that gold prices rose from a low of $278 to $1,200 in the ensuing time period. The actual amount of gold in circulation could also increase if some of the myths and legends surrounding this precious metal turn out to be true.
And yes, using Bitcoin as Drunken Sailor pointed out above ,will be the nail in the coffin for Bitcoin when government steps in saying bitcoin is used for money laundering.

The bitcoins are typically sold off in public auctions conducted by the U.S. Marshals Service, which is a law enforcement agency within the Department of Justice. ... (See also: US Marshals To Auction Seized Bitcoins.) But little else is known about the government's handling of bitcoins.
One of Bitcoin's biggest drawbacks is a lack of standardized policy for chargebacks or refunds, as all credit card companies and traditional online payment processors have. Users affected by transaction fraud – for instance, they purchase goods that the seller never delivers – can't request a refund through Bitcoin.

 

[caribbean20]

Lots of bitcoin transactions on the dark web. Guns, people, drugs... This is the basis for bitcoins value. Silk road was one of the first and probably most infamous but there have been many others.

Bitcoin transactions on the dark web were roughly 250mm in 2012, 872mm in 2018 and predicted to be over 1bn in 2019 according to chinalysis. Combine an anonymous source of payment with an anonymous marketplace and this is what you get. Supposedly illicit bit coin transactions are dropping in favor of other currencies but I have to think the anonymity of the currency is still largely driving the volume. Perfect way to launder cash.

Agreed.

And guess who owns almost all of the Silk Road BTC proceeds . . . soon to be the US Govt, if they succeed in their asset forfeiture lawsuit.

Apparently the guy who owned Silk Road kept almost all of his BTC and it still sits there in his wallet.

 

[Big B Hova]

View attachment 957838



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Five long years, he wore this watch up his ass. Then he died of dysentery, he gave me the watch. I hid this uncomfortable hunk of metal up my ass two years. Then, after seven years, I was sent home to my family. And now, little man, I give the watch to you

 

[caribbean20]

Good luck paying farmers with your Bitcoin
War and conflict continues to have a major impact on gold prices and perceived values. You only have to look at the impact of recent events in Iraq and Afghanistan, combined with the terrible events of 9/11, to see how markets and gold prices react.
The continuing belief that gold is a safe-haven in times of trouble or unrest, is probably borne out by the fact that gold prices rose from a low of $278 to $1,200 in the ensuing time period. The actual amount of gold in circulation could also increase if some of the myths and legends surrounding this precious metal turn out to be true.

I don’t think anyone here is pounding their fist on the table to own BTC. I look at BTC as an interesting alternative store of value vs gold. It has its place in any asset allocation.

I hope to ride this nag for all it’s worth and get the hell out before the music stops. Nothing more, nothing less.