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Solar NEM 3.0 - this will absolutely change the game - stop procrastinating NOW

BasilHayden

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Last night the CPUC passed a revision to the Net Enegy Metering agreements between you and your utility. While we are still trying to digest the agreement, one thing is certain. You have a very short window to get in line and be assured to be under the current deal which is about 90% better thean the new deal. My company will survive this because we will just transition to even bigger systems with more batteries to carry you through, effectively taking you off the utilities tit. But the lies you will here in the next 3 months will be unreal.

I will be unbelievable busy the next few months and will have very little time to come on RDP. The decision just made by the CPUC will be the last gold rush for solar.
DO YOUR GODDAMN RESEARCH on any company you even think about signing a contract with. No lie, I may sign contracts with 3 years worth of business in the next 3 months. If you are in my region and turn on your lights and AC occasionally, then if you dont already have solar you need to call into my office and demand a contract asap. Mention you are from RDP and give us your screen name. Do not expect me to see your PM and I am sorry but I dont have the time to personally manage each RDP deal anymore. Rest assured all RDP deals are treated by my team as if you are a personal friend and they make sure to handle as such. If you miss this window, then you have just paid the greatest procrastination tax possible.

I will stop in occasionally and update this if anything changes but keeping it simple:

1 - research your company, if its a national best bet is to find someone regional who has been around for years and who when you research them passes the sniff test.
Are there a ton of reviews saying stay away?
How long have they been licensed, if they claim in business for 50 years maybe check closer, solar hasent even been a thing for 15 years
Are they properly licensed and insured?
How many licensed salespeople do they have and how long has their sales team been there? just a hint 100 sales people is not a positive

2 - Buy do not lease
Pay cash if possible
Use a 10-12 year loan with no fees
Do not use a buydown loan, anything under 4% interest is a buydown and you may be paying 30% just to get the loan. It is never disclosed honestly btw
Do not lease or sign a PPA

3 - equipment does matter
I try to stay away from Chinese panels, its not easy and without my pull in the industry it wouldnt be possible. Our current offering is Panasonic, though there are a few other options that are OK
I use Enphase almost exclusively, even for commercial where possible. Its that much better.
Not all system Kw sizes are equal.

4 - buy more than you need, dont try to perfect size it. No one complains they have too much power.
Honestly I often advise how much fits on your home and can be supported by your existing electric panel.
If you have a 200A panel then you ought to be buying 26 panels if they fit on your roof
If you have a 100 or 125A panel you should see if your panel can be reasonably upgraded, some can/some cant

Stop Procrastinating!
 

sintax

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I'm meeting with Phil on monday, thanks for helping setting everything up!
 

SoCalDave

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Damn, looks like I'm going to miss the boat as I'm just starting an addition to our home and wanted to add solar when completed.
If a contract is signed before NEM 3.0 is it effect do I get the better deal?
Sorry, I'll call in if you don't reply. 😁
 

crzy2bealive

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So what I’m reading is:

CPUC voted cut the average export rate in California from $0.30 per kWh to $0.08 per kWh, making the cuts effective on April 15, 2023.


calls for an $8 per kW grid participation charge, or as Sendy calls it “a tax on solar customers.” This means each month a solar customer with a typical 8 kW system would pay $64 every month just to be connected to the grid.

So in short my ROI will take longer than it usually does……is that what is so bad about NEM 3.0????

I didn’t see that we are being forced to buy batteries.

Sorry just trying to make sense of it all.

Maybe I just need to see a quick calculator showing NEM 2.0 vs NEM 3.0 vs No solar and my ROI.
 

BasilHayden

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Damn, looks like I'm going to miss the boat as I'm just starting an addition to our home and wanted to add solar when completed.
If a contract is signed before NEM 3.0 is it effect do I get the better deal?
Sorry, I'll call in if you don't reply. 😁
That is "we are still trying to unravel the decision"
In one reading we could sign and install in up to 3 years, in another we need to be installed and operational in the next 120 days. Dont procrastinate.
Get in touch and at least lets start the process for you, if it turns out that it has to be installed then we pull the plug on your deal
 

HTTP404

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Fuck I struggle on this call.

I don't know if I will live here long enough for the ROI. And I don't know if the ROI will be reached when I sell. Plus my house is small and pretty new so my power bill is not crazy high. Plus I don't really want people fucking with my roof.
 

HOOTER SLED-

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Been ready to do this myself. Talked to one of your guys before...was still on the fence. Didn't really wanna replace my roof, but may wanna do this now. These fucking bills are stupid this past year. Was never this bad. It's time
 

HOOTER SLED-

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Fuck I struggle on this call.

I don't know if I will live here long enough for the ROI. And I don't know if the ROI will be reached when I sell. Plus my house is small and pretty new so my power bill is not crazy high. Plus I don't really want people fucking with my roof.
I felt the same way. Your bills will get stupid. My 1400 sq ft house bill used to be manageable. But when I doubled and hit a couple of 900-1000 bills this Summer, after not really changing much, I was like fuck this shit. The stupid ass TOU thing is bullshit.
 

BasilHayden

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So what I’m reading is:

CPUC voted cut the average export rate in California from $0.30 per kWh to $0.08 per kWh, making the cuts effective on April 15, 2023.


calls for an $8 per kW grid participation charge, or as Sendy calls it “a tax on solar customers.” This means each month a solar customer with a typical 8 kW system would pay $64 every month just to be connected to the grid.

So in short my ROI will take longer than it usually does……is that what is so bad about NEM 3.0????

I didn’t see that we are being forced to buy batteries.

Sorry just trying to make sense of it all.

Maybe I just need to see a quick calculator showing NEM 2.0 vs NEM 3.0 vs No solar and my ROI.
please dont take this personal, as I am going to take your post as a general response I have heard on RDP

If you want to wait for a calculator, good luck. Some crook will have one ready soon, Im sure it will be correct. I cant produce a calculator because the i's and t's havent even been crossed much less does anyone truly understand what just happened. What I can say is in general current NEM 2 deals with an honest contractor should be a 4-5 year return depending on your actual situation. The goal of NEM 3 is to move that closer to 10 years and I think it could be closer to 12. I'll take NEM 2 thanks.

No one is forcing anyone to buy anything, but if you want to sell your excess power for 3 cents then dont buy batteries, but if you want to save your excess power instead of selling it, and then use it when SDGE is charging you 70 cents a kw, maybe consider the batteries and also have a safety net for when they turn off your power as well.

If your in So Cal and you are a normal user of power then you should get an hosest proposal. If solar fits on your home and you have a reasonable main service panel there is a good chance you should be buying solar now if you havent already. If you are one of those who doesnt own a home for which solar fits then you will pass. There are homes with poor roof space, or an electric panel that just cant be reasonably upgraded, I tell a couple people a month to consider moving, but that we cant help them with their current home.
 

BasilHayden

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I felt the same way. Your bills will get stupid. My 1400 sq ft house bill used to be manageable. But when I doubled and hit a couple of 900-1000 bills this Summer, after not really changing much, I was like fuck this shit. The stupid ass TOU thing is bullshit.
HTTP404 said:
Fuck I struggle on this call.

I don't know if I will live here long enough for the ROI. And I don't know if the ROI will be reached when I sell. Plus my house is small and pretty new so my power bill is not crazy high. Plus I don't really want people fucking with my roof.

Weird I didnt see HTTP's reply except when you quoted it.
You will save while you do live here, you will sell the home for more, effectively paying for the system.
If you hire a good company your roof should not be damaged, but you can always keep thinking it through until there isnt a choice anymore. Thats what I am trying to get across, the time is over for thinking it through, its yes or no time now. For most the correct answer is yes, but not for all.
 

Ace in the Hole

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That is "we are still trying to unravel the decision"
In one reading we could sign and install in up to 3 years, in another we need to be installed and operational in the next 120 days. Dont procrastinate.
Get in touch and at least lets start the process for you, if it turns out that it has to be installed then we pull the plug on your deal
I’ve seen the same info, as have a feeling it’s going to be on the shorter end of the time frame. Back when HI screwed with their NEM we got up to two years in most cases….

The consensus seems to be get the app in and hope it’s longer than 180 days but don’t count on it.
 

WhatExit?

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DISCLAIMER: This only applies to those of you still living in Kommiefornia 😂😂😂
Your wave of BS will hit other states but not this fast. Be sure to sell your diesels and get rid of your gas powered lawn and garden equipment and desmogged anything...
 

SoCalDave

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It really makes since for me at this time as we are adding on, replacing the roof and upgrading service to 200 amp.
I'll give your guys a call.
 

RaceTec

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I wish I was at the point to be able to buy a system right now! I will say that @BasilHayden and his company are first class! We had a great experience with his entire crew last time I had an install!!! Great People!
 

WildHorses24

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That is "we are still trying to unravel the decision"
In one reading we could sign and install in up to 3 years, in another we need to be installed and operational in the next 120 days. Dont procrastinate.
Get in touch and at least lets start the process for you, if it turns out that it has to be installed then we pull the plug on your deal
Lets say my neighbor is looking to add solar and upgraded his panel to 200A without a permit. (Everything was done to code of course) Would that neighbor have issues when adding solar and getting the City to sign off? :rolleyes:

Also, if you add batteries later down the road are you still grandfathered into NEM 2.0, or do you get pushed to the latest revision?
 

Done-it-again

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What about adding on to a system you already installed? Would this change the current Nem?
 

Echo Lodge

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I wish I was at the point to be able to buy a system right now! I will say that @BasilHayden and his company are first class! We had a great experience with his entire crew last time I had an install!!! Great People!

Agreed.... @BasilHayden put my system in 2018. Have not had an electric bill since. Ran my AC for 6 weeks in Aug - Sept. Neighbors had 500 dollar bills.... I was able to use my excess production and only paid the $5 bucks to be connected to the grid charge.

Capture.JPG
 

Done-it-again

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Fuck I struggle on this call.

I don't know if I will live here long enough for the ROI. And I don't know if the ROI will be reached when I sell. Plus my house is small and pretty new so my power bill is not crazy high. Plus I don't really want people fucking with my roof.
I felt the same way. Your bills will get stupid. My 1400 sq ft house bill used to be manageable. But when I doubled and hit a couple of 900-1000 bills this Summer, after not really changing much, I was like fuck this shit. The stupid ass TOU thing is bullshit.
you are paying either way.... I would rather pay a loan (if not paying cash) than the stupid utility Company...
 

Ace in the Hole

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you are paying either way.... I would rather pay a loan (if not paying cash) than the stupid utility Company...
There are only a handful of lenders I would recommend. Dealer fees have gone absolutely stupid with the "big names" and its something that doesn't sit well with me (never has). People are attracted to a low APR, but don't understand how astronomical the fees can be to get those "rates."

I have literally been in back to back phone/teams meetings all day over the rate jump this week, and now the California NEM mess. Much like @BasilHayden ..I have zero time right now to really give individual explanations to people on solar loans, but I will say this RESEARCH, UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SIGNING, and Seek out reputable contractors..... If you are in @BasilHayden 's service area call him hands down, outside of that area Get multiple bids etc.

If you are in California, and are even remotely considering solar....get your app in asap.
 

t&y

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So trying to do basic math in my head here re R.O.I. I have a brand new 200 amp panel installed and ready to go. I could fit 26 panels if needed. So 26 panels with all the fixin's installed would cost me how much in Riverside County? And how much extra to add a battery bank?
 

BasilHayden

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Lets say my neighbor is looking to add solar and upgraded his panel to 200A without a permit. (Everything was done to code of course) Would that neighbor have issues when adding solar and getting the City to sign off? :rolleyes:

Also, if you add batteries later down the road are you still grandfathered into NEM 2.0, or do you get pushed to the latest revision?
If its to code and no red flags that it was illegally done then in most cases your "neighbor" would be fine.

Second question is less sure, I believe you would be fine, but they are literally still writing this law even though they passed it yesterday
 

BasilHayden

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So trying to do basic math in my head here re R.O.I. I have a brand new 200 amp panel installed and ready to go. I could fit 26 panels if needed. So 26 panels with all the fixin's installed would cost me how much in Riverside County? And how much extra to add a battery bank?
How many roof planes, what type of roofing, how much battery... a lot of missing info here

PV 9.4kw about 34k +/- depending on answers above

Battery 10kw - 18k; 20kw - 28k (most likely 20kw is right for your situation)

ROI - super simple, this is a customer who just bought 26 panels so real life deal

PV Cost - 32k
30% Tax Credit - (9,600)
Net Cost - 22,400

Savings year 1 based on current usage profile - $5,280, lets call it 5k.
At todays prices you have paid off the system in 4.5 years
Guess what, prices are going up for power, ask me how I know. It will pay off even faster.

I have been saying for years, honestly this sells itself. I sleep very well knowing how many people I have helped.

If you miss NEM2 this will change to closer to 10-12 years


1671232234488.png

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1671232319671.png


Your actual usage will affect these numbers, but as you can see it pays for itself sooner than you would imagine.
Your wife able to set the thermostat at igloo temps, priceless
 

Caydens Cat

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Bought a house with leased solar. Yes, I did NOT want that!,, but it’s now the reality. Is it difficult/legal to have your crew add to the system? More panels are “needed” as it’s undersized for our use.
 

BasilHayden

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Bought a house with leased solar. Yes, I did NOT want that!,, but it’s now the reality. Is it difficult/legal to have your crew add to the system? More panels are “needed” as it’s undersized for our use.
Not impossible, but definitely can be an issue. Is it really a lease or is it PPA (hard no)
Who owns the system, are you willing to give up the existing warranty. They will find a way to void it if I touch anything.
I would in essence try to install a completely separate system, to protect you, but trust me leasing companies want out of their guarantees any way possible, but they wont stop chasing you for the payments.
 

Tom Slick

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Please pardon my ignorance as I do not live in California, but what in the heck is this all about? You guys use a lot of acronyms in your discussion that I have no idea the meaning of. The OP and others make this solar thing sound like some kind of emergency and that has me concerned. Can I please get the cliff notes.
 

t&y

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How many roof planes, what type of roofing, how much battery... a lot of missing info here

PV 9.4kw about 34k +/- depending on answers above

Battery 10kw - 18k; 20kw - 28k (most likely 20kw is right for your situation)

ROI - super simple, this is a customer who just bought 26 panels so real life deal

PV Cost - 32k
30% Tax Credit - (9,600)
Net Cost - 22,400

Savings year 1 based on current usage profile - $5,280, lets call it 5k.
At todays prices you have paid off the system in 4.5 years
Guess what, prices are going up for power, ask me how I know. It will pay off even faster.

I have been saying for years, honestly this sells itself. I sleep very well knowing how many people I have helped.

If you miss NEM2 this will change to closer to 10-12 years


View attachment 1181153
View attachment 1181154
View attachment 1181155

Your actual usage will affect these numbers, but as you can see it pays for itself sooner than you would imagine.
Your wife able to set the thermostat at igloo temps, priceless
1900 Square foot single story one plane composite roof with the rear west facing roof. 2/3 of that roof is over house, 1/3 is covered patio. Usage last year cost us between 280 and 600 monthly. I think one of your guys came up here about 7 or 8 years ago and at the time we thought we were moving outta here so it didn't pencil out. We will have this house for at least the next 8 years unless something crazy happens at this point.

So 26 panels for 32K works out to roughly 1.23k per panel.

Side note, have you guys ever installed a parking shade solar panel set up at a house? Pretty much the same as you see at a lot schools, just in a back yard?
 

Brokeboatin221

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Not impossible, but definitely can be an issue. Is it really a lease or is it PPA (hard no)
Who owns the system, are you willing to give up the existing warranty. They will find a way to void it if I touch anything.
I would in essence try to install a completely separate system, to protect you, but trust me leasing companies want out of their guarantees any way possible, but they wont stop chasing you for the payments.
Can you post your contact info again and service area. Thank you!
 

Ace in the Hole

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I’ve seen the same info, as have a feeling it’s going to be on the shorter end of the time frame. Back when HI screwed with their NEM we got up to two years in most cases….

The consensus seems to be get the app in and hope it’s longer than 180 days but don’t count on it.
@BasilHayden Per a very long meeting I got out at about 20 minutes ago it’s three years.
 

bonesfab

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I have been tempted to do this. I know power bills will not get cheaper in my lifetime. My bill is 250-450.00 Not terrible but not great either. Have plenty of roof. But might need to a roof first. decisions decisions.
 

HTTP404

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I made the call. Thanks @BasilHayden for the heads up!

Funny enough while checking on our Edison bill we have discovered that we have not been billed since June. We show a 0 balance so I guess I need to see WTF is going on with that. No electric bill all summer. They are going to slam me.
 

Echo Lodge

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Please pardon my ignorance as I do not live in California, but what in the heck is this all about? You guys use a lot of acronyms in your discussion that I have no idea the meaning of. The OP and others make this solar thing sound like some kind of emergency and that has me concerned. Can I please get the cliff notes


😉
 

MK1MOD0

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Agreed.... @BasilHayden put my system in 2018. Have not had an electric bill since. Ran my AC for 6 weeks in Aug - Sept. Neighbors had 500 dollar bills.... I was able to use my excess production and only paid the $5 bucks to be connected to the grid charge.

View attachment 1181140

Curious what your system cost ? I always hear what people pay per month for power, but no one ever says what their system cost them. I’m thinking of adding solar, but no idea if it would even actually pan out.
 

Angler

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Palomar put 37 panels on my 2k sqft single story house. No electric bills since 2017. Pool, AC runs 24/7 from May Till mid Oct.
 
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HTTP404

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Palomar put 37 panels on my 2k sqft single story house. No electric bills since 2017. Pool, AC runs 24/7 from May Till mid Oct.
Do you have a battery bank for overnight?
 

Echo Lodge

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Curious what your system cost ? I always hear what people pay per month for power, but no one ever says what their system cost them. I’m thinking of adding solar, but no idea if it would even actually pan out.
16 (LG300N1K) Panels installed 3/2017 for $14,880. Subtract the 30% Fed rebate and my OTD was $10,416. I am under NEM 1.0. No need for battery backup until 2037 when my NEM 1.0 expires.

If you don't act fast and get NEM 2.0 it will take at least twice as long for your ROI. If you burn through a lot of kWh a month, your ROI will be pretty quick under NEM 2.0.
 

BasilHayden

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@BasilHayden Per a very long meeting I got out at about 20 minutes ago it’s three years.
Yes, I am working under the same understanding. That said there are quite a number of unknowns still, which is why I am encouraging folks to get in the queue as soon as possible.

Its going to get weird and being in the front of the line will be much better than praying you make it to the front before the game ends.
 

redone76

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What if I want nothing to do with solar? Will I be penalized somehow? I don't plan on staying in this house long enough to worry about it. And yes I'm in SoCal
 

t&y

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Palomar put 37 panels on my 2k sqft single story house. No electric bills since 2017. Pool, AC runs 24/7 from May Till mid Oct.
This is what I'm looking at. I have no idea how many panels I can fit, but the last time we looked into this (not with palomarsolar) it was all about leaving tier 4 charges per agreements with local Power companies. I couldn't afford to pay outright back then so I was kinda stuck with that type of option. With the 30% rebate and the current income, the numbers I'm seeing are very doable, but I too want to be able to run my AC & Pool without using line power if I'm going to do it.

Found an article that breaks it down pretty straightforward even for a knuckle dragger like me.
 
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MK1MOD0

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Is it feasible to go off the grid. I’m on 6 acres, so space isn’t an issue. With a battery setup and Generator( on propane ) I’m thinking it’s possible. Then disconnect from the utility all together. I really do not want to produce electricity for any corrupt entity for pennies.
 

DC-88

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@BasilHayden - I have a paid for existing Enphase 24 panel 400 A panel micro inverter system in San Bernardino Co. Any issues down the road with regulations for adding panels onto the system to support battery wall and increased usage of the system due to increased occupancy ? As a GC on new builds we have been and will continue doing the required T-24 systems as part of each new build, but I don't work in San Bernardino co and have never dealt with permits for adding or replacing panels or components on existing, or if anyone even needs to know . The new panels get more productive each year. Can they be linked right into an existing array of older, different brand of panels ? - thank you
 
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