FREEDOM 1 The real MPH

[ToMorrow44]

We’ll see. But I doubt ever.

1) spirit of Qatar completed the 244 record on a longer course.
2) they were in a mystic. Only offshore cat specifically designed by a naval architect to run over 200 MPH. Skaters are bad ass race boats. They’re not designed to run over 200. There’s endless evidence of this via multiple high speed flips. I know the skater guys won’t like that statement, but it’s true.

Freedom 1 wants to beat 244mph? Buy a mystic, run more power.

Agreed . The minimum length for LOTO shootout is 22ft. Not sure why someone doesn’t build a 22ft top fuel hydro and run it…. I mean American ethanol and F1 are basically drag boats anyway, they get towed to/from the course, run on alcohol, get torn down and rebuilt after each event. Why do it in a 40-50ft boat..?

 

[ToMorrow44]

We’ll see. Looked to me like they nailed it pretty good. I don’t think it’s capable of 245 mph in that short of a course, it would have to accelerate almost as hard as a drag boat. Just my opinion. Not to mention not safe in that boat.

10k HP is a lot. But it wasn’t enough to even beat Gary’s number.

To be fair, Gary’s 204 run was completed with no start box speed limit. I think he rolled thru there at 60 or 70. Still incredibly impressive though.

 

[WYRD]

Damn

Damn

Damn

God damn

Damn

Dang son?

DAYUM son…

 

[Sleek-Jet]

There's two options for measure speed that would be repeatable... A certified GPS or time over distance calculations like how land speed records and such are determined.

 

[parker ed]

Looks like the boys returned back to the shop and the Motec guys came over and did a little read.
219.9 MPH . Radar gun are not accurate at all… There has to be a better way…

Shane T is the man when it comes to Motec!!

 

[575cat]

I keep thinking the horsepower and the brick theory .

 

[Hardly Satisfied]

OMG that‘s crazy

 

[FROGMAN524]

We’ll see. But I doubt ever.

1) spirit of Qatar completed the 244 record on a longer course.
2) they were in a mystic. Only offshore cat specifically designed by a naval architect to run over 200 MPH. Skaters are bad ass race boats. They’re not designed to run over 200. There’s endless evidence of this via multiple high speed flips. I know the skater guys won’t like that statement, but it’s true.

Freedom 1 wants to beat 244mph? Buy a mystic, run more power.

What’s top end on this Skater and who’s the owner?

 

[Big B Hova]

Damn

Damn

Damn

God damn

Damn

DAYUM son…

View attachment 1502324

 

[Riverbound]

You would think with the shortened course the acceleration needed would be more dangerous than a longer course where they can roll into the speeds. Wondering if either a rolling start or longer course would be a. Safer option than essentially a longer drag race.

 

[coolchange]

I don’t really know too much about those big boats. But I do know when it set and starts to carry like a runner bottom, you got issues. If I was peddling a flat and it started to do that, I would be biting seat covers and stretching my left leg. I assume that once it overpacked, you were just along for the ride.
Being a cockpit boat, do they not have a fix on the horizon? a new boat and not know the feel?
Seems like a canard hooked to some telemetry and able to react almost instantaneously would be a next step. I mean you’re already flying the boat. Controllable Surfaces would seem to be the next step. I know aerodynamics and hydrodynamics do not work in harmony, so it would be a touchy deal at best.

 

[575cat]

I don’t really know too much about those big boats. But I do know when it set and starts to carry like a runner bottom, you got issues. If I was peddling a flat and it started to do that, I would be biting seat covers and stretching my left leg. I assume that once it overpacked, you were just along for the ride.
Being a cockpit boat, do they not have a fix on the horizon? a new boat and not know the feel?
Seems like a canard hooked to some telemetry and able to react almost instantaneously would be a next step. I mean you’re already flying the boat. Controllable Surfaces would seem to be the next step. I know aerodynamics and hydrodynamics do not work in harmony, so it would be a touchy deal at best.

Yah I seen that coming on early in the run , doing that in a cat is not good . I remember Bob Teague talking about deck pressure , water testing a M31 G Force what matters up top verses the hull below , Aerodynamics .

 

[Tank]

What’s top end on this Skater and who’s the owner?

That boat belonged to Jeff Cheng (founder of offshore only.com and the guy in those military painted painted gazelles flying around desert storm with his buddies). That boat reportedly would do just over 200. Was a big cigarette guy for many years then got out of boating and into exotic sport car collecting and racing. Then got back into boating for a little while and bought HellFire. Dumped some cash into it to update it, ran it a few times and sold it last year but I don’t know where it went. Now Jeff flies exotic helicopters.

 

[Tank]

I don’t really know too much about those big boats. But I do know when it set and starts to carry like a runner bottom, you got issues. If I was peddling a flat and it started to do that, I would be biting seat covers and stretching my left leg. I assume that once it overpacked, you were just along for the ride.
Being a cockpit boat, do they not have a fix on the horizon? a new boat and not know the feel?
Seems like a canard hooked to some telemetry and able to react almost instantaneously would be a next step. I mean you’re already flying the boat. Controllable Surfaces would seem to be the next step. I know aerodynamics and hydrodynamics do not work in harmony, so it would be a touchy deal at best.

There’s a saying with big air packing cats - “you trim to the moon, you’re gonna fly to the moon.”

 

[Flying_Lavey]

Agreed . The minimum length for LOTO shootout is 22ft. Not sure why someone doesn’t build a 22ft top fuel hydro and run it…. I mean American ethanol and F1 are basically drag boats anyway, they get towed to/from the course, run on alcohol, get torn down and rebuilt after each event. Why do it in a 40-50ft boat..?

You think the drivers and boats are sensitive to wind now....... imagine a Top fuel hydro with a breeze and decent chop.....

 

[adam909]

Crazy how fast they where going and it seems like they weren't even at the limits of the motors yet..

 

[DWC]

That boat belonged to Jeff Cheng (founder of offshore only.com and the guy in those military painted painted gazelles flying around desert storm with his buddies). That boat reportedly would do just over 200. Was a big cigarette guy for many years then got out of boating and into exotic sport car collecting and racing. Then got back into boating for a little while and bought HellFire. Dumped some cash into it to update it, ran it a few times and sold it last year but I don’t know where it went. Now Jeff flies exotic helicopters.

That’s what those helicopters were. Didn’t see any weapon systems so figured they weren’t military. Thought it was filming a TV/Movie because they always had a couple copters chasing.

 

[Tom Slick]

My observation:

The boat America 1 entered the start box at the regulation speed of 40 MPH. Accelerated down the 3/4 mile race course and reached a maximum speed of 215.989 MPH before lift off. Now I don't know the exact distance from the time the boat hit 215+ MPH before it lost contact with the lake, but it appeared to be at the very least 1,000 feet from the finish line were it was recorded on radar at 200.1 MPH upside down. So to argue that the boat isn't capable of reaching a much higher top speed in the 3/4 mile is laughable.

Not taking anything away from Predator, as 204 MPH in an open cockpit Skater is just mad, Predator rolled the start box at a considerably higher speed than 40 MPH which for whatever reason was not required that year. Predator also had a substantial amount of testing and development leading up to that incredible run. I have no idea of the true top speed of Predator, but I can guarantee it was north of the 204 MPH pass in the shootout.

So kudos to both of those boats and teams for their achievements. But bottom-line, the Freedom 1 race team was laying it down BIG TIME for a boat that was in the water only 4-5 times total. I am very much looking forward to these guys rebuilding and giving it another shot in the future.

 

[JFMFG]

My observation:

The boat America 1 entered the start box at the regulation speed of 40 MPH. Accelerated down the 3/4 mile race course and reached a maximum speed of 215.989 MPH before lift off. Now I don't know the exact distance from the time the boat hit 215+ MPH before it lost contact with the lake, but it appeared to be at the very least 1,000 feet from the finish line were it was recorded on radar at 200.1 MPH upside down. So to argue that the boat isn't capable of reaching a much higher top speed in the 3/4 mile is laughable.

Not taking anything away from Predator, as 204 MPH in an open cockpit Skater is just mad, Predator rolled the start box at a considerably higher speed than 40 MPH which for whatever reason was not required that year. Predator also had a substantial amount of testing and development leading up to that incredible run. I have no idea of the true top speed of Predator, but I can guarantee it was north of the 204 MPH pass in the shootout.

So kudos to both of those boats and teams for their achievements. But bottom-line, the Freedom 1 race team was laying it down BIG TIME for a boat that was in the water only 4-5 times total. I am very much looking forward to these guys rebuilding and giving it another shot in the future.

I agree. Both boats mad props. My nuts aren’t as big as either of them.

 

[Justsomeguy]

I agree. Both boats mad props. My nuts aren’t as big as either of them.

My bank account is bigger hindrance than my balls.

 

[Havasu blue label]

To be fair, Gary’s 204 run was completed with no start box speed limit. I think he rolled thru there at 60 or 70. Still incredibly impressive though.

Next year desert storm and the shoot out in may 2026 will be the biggest events in Havasu

 

[Meaney77]

So kudos to both of those boats and teams for their achievements. But bottom-line, the Freedom 1 race team was laying it down BIG TIME for a boat that was in the water only 4-5 times total. I am very much looking forward to these guys rebuilding and giving it another shot in the future.

These guys just have a great story. Their isnt a single person in the boating community now that doenst know the boat or the team. They overcame challneges before the race, they raced and won! They appear to be a very humble race team and to me the fact that they went through all of this, risked everything, totaled a boat, almost died, set a record, and still donated all of their winnings speaks volumes!

Since all of this I started following them on IG and cabt wait to see what the future holds!!

Everyone one on the race team should be walking around with their nuts on display over their shoulders!!

 

[JFMFG]

Next year desert storm and the shoot out in may 2026 will be the biggest events in Havasu

Wait ds and the shootout are different weekends next year?

 

[Havasu blue label]

Wait ds and the shootout are different weekends next year?

The shoot out that was scheduled for this weekend

 

[Bigbore500r]

yes, Motec uses their own GPS, at 10hz, unlike merc stuff that runs at 1.

What their MOTEC needs . . .

 

[DaveH]

What their MOTEC needs . . .

View attachment 1502430

altitude is a channel that can be logged with Motec. along with g-forces in 3 axis'. without any additional sensors

 

[Bigbore500r]

altitude is a channel that can be logged with Motec. along with g-forces in 3 axis'. without any additional sensors

A log is nice, but using that data to keep the nose on the water in real time would be better!

 

[bonesfab]

altitude is a channel that can be logged with Motec. along with g-forces in 3 axis'. without any additional sensors

would like to see the G-force of the flips and pirohette.

 

[Racey]

would like to see the G-force of the flips and pirohette.

The internal Accelerometers cap out at 10 gs if i remember correctly.

They are commonly used in conjunction with steering angle and speed sensors to instantly calculate oversteer/understeer for track data.

If you have a known wheel base, using the steering angle and vehicle speed you can get a theoretical G force number and compare that to the actual G force sensed.

 

[RiverDave]

Operator or equipment issue. I said it last year too. They need someone who operates radar for a living, and maybe a sponsor to loan the equipment

I would think at some point they would switch to timing lights?

RD

 

[FlyByWire]

I would think at some point they would switch to timing lights?

RD

Timing lights or onboard GPS thingys provided by the organizers like NASCAR or something..?

 

[RiverDave]

Timing lights or onboard GPS thingys provided by the organizers like NASCAR or something..?

Like drag boats..

You do a series of light beams at predetermined distances.. when the boat breaks the beams it tells you how fast it’s going in the start box..

When the boat exits the course you have the time between the start box and finish line for a “time it took to complete the distance” with another set to give you exit speed.

It’s really pretty basic to do.

It pretty much removes all the bullshit out of it as well. No radars no human error etc

If Ron had won that battle for the shootout it was my intention to purchase timing lights and have a legit shootout at SCFW..

That ship kinda sailed and I don’t want to do anything that would potentially hurt DS, so I’m gonna stay in my lane.

RD

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

Like drag boats..

You do a series of light beams at predetermined distances.. when the boat breaks the beams it tells you how fast it’s going in the start box..

When the boat exits the course you have the time between the start box and finish line for a “time it took to complete the distance” with another set to give you exit speed.

It’s really pretty basic to do.

It pretty much removes all the bullshit out of it as well. No radars no human error etc

If Ron had won that battle for the shootout it was my intention to purchase timing lights and have a legit shootout at SCFW..

That ship kinda sailed and I don’t want to do anything that would potentially hurt DS, so I’m gonna stay in my lane.

RD

I don't know that lights would be the answer in this style racing. 40mph through the gate trimmed to raise the bow, lights start on the rear of the boat. Trim flat at the finish line to clip the lights with the bow. So there is alot of room on these big boats in a shoot out style race to effect time and mph. I would think a mycron style system would work better, transmitter in the boat and receivers on the water would be a more level playing field. JMO

 

[Mr. C]

I see 215.9 where do you see 219.9?

I’m still going with.
Holy damn.

 

[oldman]

I don't know that lights would be the answer in this style racing. 40mph through the gate trimmed to raise the bow, lights start on the rear of the boat. Trim flat at the finish line to clip the lights with the bow. So there is alot of room on these big boats in a shoot out style race to effect time and mph. I would think a mycron style system would work better, transmitter in the boat and receivers on the water would be a more level playing field. JMO

Am I wrong, but the speed is not measured throughout the run, its a set of traps at the end of the course, boat attitude through the traps would not change.

If it were to be measured through a set of traps.

Thinking drag racing.

No one is looking at reaction times or 60', it's outright at the end.

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

Am I wrong, but the speed is not measured throughout the run, its a set of traps at the end of the course, boat attitude through the traps would not change.

If it were to be measured through a set of traps.

Thinking drag racing.

No one is looking at reaction times or 60', it's outright at the end.

Most of the modern light systems measure time over distance for an accurate MPH. and where the lights are triggered on the boat would definitely make a difference. It would be like jumping the guard beam.

 

[PRORACER7474]

Am I wrong, but the speed is not measured throughout the run, its a set of traps at the end of the course, boat attitude through the traps would not change.

If it were to be measured through a set of traps.

Thinking drag racing.

No one is looking at reaction times or 60', it's outright at the end.

MPH on a drag race course is measured by the MPH lights 60ft apart at 1/2 track 660FT and 60ft apart at either 1000ft or 1/4 mile

 

[oldman]

MPH on a drag race course is measured by the MPH lights 60ft apart at 1/2 track 660FT and 60ft apart at either 1000ft or 1/4 mile

Why would that not work for boats? measured at the same point on the boat for all measurements.
Drag racing is a timed measurement.

No one cares what the time is, the measurement is purely speed.

 

[Deckin Around]

Crowd control aside, why does the format not let them build as much speed as they want before the 3/4 mile where the speed timing is done?

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

Why would that not work for boats? measured at the same point on the boat for all measurements.
Drag racing is a timed measurement.

No one cares what the time is, the measurement is purely speed.

It would. That's why a transponder system would make more sense then a light systems for boats. That way it is measured at the same point of the boat at each receiver. A transmitter in the bow of the boat that doesn't move and receivers on the water that don't move. The transmitter communicates to the receivers at the same exact point everytime. Don't have to worry about the boat clipping the beam at different points on the boat depending on trim height, in turn changing the mph. Then there would be no "lights" or "beams" needed. With a light system you have sensors that basically "shoot a beam" from one sensor to the other that "beam" has to be interrupted in order to activate or deactivate. The beam is set at a certain height. A boat will very in hight depending on set trim. In turn interrupting the beam at different points of the boat(going over the beam). A transponder would communicate at the same point everytime no mater what the trim is because there is no beam to "go over". If that makes sence?

 

[oldman]

It would. That's why a transponder system would make more sense then a light systems for boats. That way it is measured at the same point of the boat at each receiver. A transmitter in the bow of the boat that doesn't move and receivers on the water that don't move. The transmitter communicates to the receivers at the same exact point everytime. Don't have to worry about the boat clipping the beam at different points on the boat depending on trim height, in turn changing the mph. Then there would be no "lights" or "beams" needed. With a light system you have sensors that basically "shoot a beam" from one sensor to the other that "beam" has to be interrupted in order to activate or deactivate. The beam is set at a certain height. A boat will very in hight depending on set trim. In turn interrupting the beam at different points of the boat(going over the beam). A transponder would communicate at the same point everytime no mater what the trim is because there is no beam to "go over". If that makes sence?

It does, Thanks.

I was looking at a way to use stationary points, and that does it in a much more concise way.

 

[Lord M((Squared))]

Here is my take on the whole situation, took this pic right before they made the run. If you have never run the shootout course with the windy conditions we had on Saturday, it's very difficult to put in words the cross wind blast you get about 200 yards before the exit buoys(exactly where the F1 boat decided to impersonate a space x rocket.) All of us who run the shootout know this is something to expect and even knowing what was coming during my run I can't tell you how violent it was this year and I knew right away why they flipped. With the direct south wind we had the geography of the land protects the course all the way down until that point where it opens up on the shore. The wind travels thru that valley and actually increases speed and the best example I could come up with when talking with a buddy I put a leaf blower on the tail gate of my truck and threw a paper airplane in front of it and instantly the plane was blown up which is exactly what happened to the F1 boat. They didn't stand a chance accelerating that fast and traveling north of 200mph. We have never had a boat run those numbers in those conditions and thank god because we all see what happens.....it becomes an invisible ramp.
I had the opportunity to spend a fair amount of time at the street party talking to both guys who were in the cockpit and they were awesome. They understood the risks of chasing a big number and if I had to guess based off our conversation at the street party that this run wasn't a full power pass. I think the boat ran way better on that pass than the team was expecting.....which let that sink in for a moment. There is likely a shit load more power left on tap with that setup. I can only say I'm glad they were able to survive the crash and if I had any critique of their program it would be with their safety belts in the boat. The amount of body movement they both experienced on impact was absolutely unacceptable. They need a minimum of 5 or 6 point harnesses in there and the belts need to be much more snugged in, likely the reason they have the injuries they received. On a positive note we learned our safety program is on point and our first responders are true rock stars Oh yea and the radar guns were actually 10mph slow this year.....either 10mph fast or 10mph slow... someday they will figure this shit out.

 

[Tom Slick]

Here is my take on the whole situation, took this pic right before they made the run. If you have never run the shootout course with the windy conditions we had on Saturday, it's very difficult to put in words the cross wind blast you get about 200 yards before the exit buoys(exactly where the F1 boat decided to impersonate a space x rocket.) All of us who run the shootout know this is something to expect and even knowing what was coming during my run I can't tell you how violent it was this year and I knew right away why they flipped. With the direct south wind we had the geography of the land protects the course all the way down until that point where it opens up on the shore. The wind travels thru that valley and actually increases speed and the best example I could come up with when talking with a buddy I put a leaf blower on the tail gate of my truck and threw a paper airplane in front of it and instantly the plane was blown up which is exactly what happened to the F1 boat. They didn't stand a chance accelerating that fast and traveling north of 200mph. We have never had a boat run those numbers in those conditions and thank god because we all see what happens.....it becomes an invisible ramp.
I had the opportunity to spend a fair amount of time at the street party talking to both guys who were in the cockpit and they were awesome. They understood the risks of chasing a big number and if I had to guess based off our conversation at the street party that this run wasn't a full power pass. I think the boat ran way better on that pass than the team was expecting.....which let that sink in for a moment. There is likely a shit load more power left on tap with that setup. I can only say I'm glad they were able to survive the crash and if I had any critique of their program it would be with their safety belts in the boat. The amount of body movement they both experienced on impact was absolutely unacceptable. They need a minimum of 5 or 6 point harnesses in there and the belts need to be much more snugged in, likely the reason they have the injuries they received. On a positive note we learned our safety program is on point and our first responders are true rock stars Oh yea and the radar guns were actually 10mph slow this year.....either 10mph fast or 10mph slow... someday they will figure this shit out. View attachment 1502631

From the video it looks like they are wearing 5 points. That said, I agree that there was far to much movement in the cockpit with such a massive crash. Race cars and even capsule race boats limit movement in many ways. They have much tighter cockpits with padding that limits leg and arm movement. They have safety tethers to hold arms in place, etc. The larger 2+ men cockpits in these offshore style race boats leave way to much space for body parts to flail about. I'd definitely be taking a closer look as to how to make the cockpit safer.

 

[Racey]

From the video it looks like they are wearing 5 points. That said, I agree that there was far to much movement in the cockpit with such a massive crash. Race cars and even capsule race boats limit movement in many ways. They have much tighter cockpits with padding that limits leg and arm movement. They have safety tethers to hold arms in place, etc. The larger 2+ men cockpits in these offshore style race boats leave way to much space for body parts to flail about. I'd definitely be taking a closer look as to how to make the cockpit safer.

The problem is you cannot have too confined a cockpit otherwise trying to exit a capsize event could result in drowning as you try to flip yourself upside down to get to the floor hatch (which is now the ceiling).....

 

[She's Mine]

Oh yeah, They have gobs of power for sure. But They were at the end of the course at 210, or actually their official speed was 201 at the end of the course. They technically didn’t even beat Gary’s record.

Theyre gonna need more power to get there faster.

Maybe a bigger prop.

Actually they had a long way to go at 210 to the end of the course. The boat flew 100+ yards so they were on 2/3 of the way down.

 

[Justsomeguy]

Actually they had a long way to go at 210 to the end of the course. The boat flew 100+ yards so they were on 2/3 of the way down.

I'm pulling for them. Can't wait to see them back.

 

[Tank]

Actually they had a long way to go at 210 to the end of the course. The boat flew 100+ yards so they were on 2/3 of the way down.

I mean, I wouldn’t say they had a “long way to go” And they were more than 2/3rds down the course, even with your math of 100 yards to go.

3/4 mile is course is 1320 yards. 100 yards is almost there. official winning speed was 200.7 or something like that (the speed at flight). At 200mph you’re traveling just under 300 feet per second. So, one more second and they would’ve crossed the exit gates. Took them roughly 13 seconds to go 40-205 (on their GPS)

I highly, highly, HIGHLY doubt, they’d gain another 43 mph in 1 second.

Again, no poo pooing their attempt at all. Brass balls! Just trying to be realistic about chasing a 244 mph record on a shorter course with less HP mind you (the T55 turbine puts out 6000 shaft HP). However, those drag motors in Freedom one are gonna pull harder, I’ll grant them that.

Interested to see what their next step will be. That’s for sure. Interested to see how spirit of Qatar with all its modifications and American ethanol will run in loto in Aug too.

 

[JFMFG]

Spirit is coming back this year too? I saw it was sold but wasn’t sure of the plans for it

 

[4Waters]

It's a "Flight deck" on this particular boat

 

[Tank]

Spirit is coming back this year too? I saw it was sold but wasn’t sure of the plans for it

I heard they are trying to get it done in time for the august shootout.