Eliminator SST repower with new 200R

[WavetoWave]

Here's a great repower with the new 200R on a SST. These engines are real performers, I am seeing some great numbers on other boats. This one is running the torque master, and probably could've gone with the sport master with the speed it's getting. Both cases have 1.75:1 gears.

Take a look.

Mercury Racing 200R SST repower

 

[Ragged Edge]

I would not put a Sportmaster gear case on for that hull. The diameter of the bullet is too large, has serious negative effects on handling and speed.

What numbers are you seeing with the Torquemaster?

 

[Guest06]

Here's a great repower with the new 200R on a SST. These engines are real performers, I am seeing some great numbers on other boats. This one is running the torque master, and probably could've gone with the sport master with the speed it's getting. Both cases have 1.75:1 gears.

Take a look.

Mercury Racing 200R SST repower

View attachment 1498762

Are you in Fort Mohave?

 

[Riverbound]

Here's a great repower with the new 200R on a SST. These engines are real performers, I am seeing some great numbers on other boats. This one is running the torque master, and probably could've gone with the sport master with the speed it's getting. Both cases have 1.75:1 gears.

Take a look.

Mercury Racing 200R SST repower

View attachment 1498762

Keep us updated on the performance.

 

[n2otoofast4u]

Spent the weekend on this with a forum member who just bought it. 300R

 

[stoker2001]

The four strokes do have the torque,but that 497Lb is PORKY!The 225 Promax two stroke is only 400lbs and unless it was worn out or setup was way off,could easily push that SST to mid eighties..just my $.02

 

[HST4ME]

The four strokes do have the torque,but that 497Lb is PORKY!The 225 Promax two stroke is only 400lbs and unless it was worn out or setup was way off,could easily push that SST to mid eighties..just my $.02

514 is the real weight.

 

[toto]

Spent the weekend on this with a forum member who just bought it. 300R View attachment 1498809 View attachment 1498810

Clean looking 22 - How does it run with the 300R on it

 

[Outdrive1]

I would consider one for my boat, what are your real life speed numbers?

 

[WavetoWave]

The four strokes do have the torque,but that 497Lb is PORKY!The 225 Promax two stroke is only 400lbs and unless it was worn out or setup was way off,could easily push that SST to mid eighties..just my $.02

Ya. The 225 Promax is great, but if you want the new technology, the 200R has a ton of power. Solid mounts and the 5.44 sportmaster. It generally performs similar to the Promax. An Allison XB21 is running 93 with the 200R, and an xb2003 ran 97.

 

[WavetoWave]

Are you in Fort Mohave?

The owner is in Havasu I believe. Not sure exactly where

 

[WavetoWave]

I would consider one for my boat, what are your real life speed numbers?

What boat? Boils down to the set-up. If you're in the 80+ range you'll want the sport master. The torque master is great for heavier boats sub 80 MPH

 

[Outdrive1]

What boat? Boils down to the set-up. If you're in the 80+ range you'll want the sport master. The torque master is great for heavier boats sub 80 MPH

The 200, so it’s comparable to a 225 two stroke. The 225’s have a really good power band with low end torque

 

[Bajastu]

I repowered my old 1988 Hallett 19SS with a new Evinrude 200 E-TEC G2 and these new motors are heavy!!! I had Barron build up the transom and add 2" thick transom supports with a 1/4" aluminum plate that wrapped from the transom to the stringers. I'd definitely look into the integrity of the transom before adding a modern heavy outboard to a boat that was originally equipped with a light 2-stroke. I would have went with a Mercury, but during covid, outboards were in short supply. I love seeing all of these old boats getting a new lease on life.

 

[WavetoWave]

I would not put a Sportmaster gear case on for that hull. The diameter of the bullet is too large, has serious negative effects on handling and speed.

What numbers are you seeing with the Torquemaster?

The sport master is faster than a coned torque master when tested on an Allison XB21, the trick is running the big sporty master really hight. About 2.5" above the pad. A stock TM is great but not for a surfacing application.

This gentleman is running 82 at 6100 with a 26" ET 4 blade. He could probably cone the TM or run a SM

 

[Outdrive1]

The sport master is faster than a coned torque master when tested on an Allison XB21, the trick is running the big sporty master really hight. About 2.5" above the pad. A stock TM is great but not for a surfacing application.

This gentleman is running 82 at 6100 with a 26" ET 4 blade. He could probably cone the TM or run a SM

I’m running a coned fleetmaster. I have broken it previously, but they say it’s the fastest lower.

 

[WavetoWave]

I’m running a coned fleetmaster. I have broken it previously, but they say it’s the fastest lower.

Ya. It could be. Depends on the boat, prop etc. I was talking about the Allison tested which is a very finicky boat. The main issue with the 5.44 is that it has to be run much higher than the old sport masters.

 

[WavetoWave]

The 200, so it’s comparable to a 225 two stroke. The 225’s have a really good power band with low end torque

We're seeing about the same speed as the old Promax on some hulls

 

[Outdrive1]

I was considering the 200r, I’m not chasing any numbers, I’m tired of breaking mids and lowers. Tired of running AV gas. I could sell my 15” 300xs and buy a 200r even swap I’m guessing. Can I live with a 60 mph boat? I cruise at that speed now.

 

[n2otoofast4u]

Clean looking 22 - How does it run with the 300R on it

So far so good. Getting setup and props sorted, but it rides really well, and for what he's using it for, it will be a great boat!

 

[stoker2001]

I was considering the 200r, I’m not chasing any numbers, I’m tired of breaking mids and lowers. Tired of running AV gas. I could sell my 15” 300xs and buy a 200r even swap I’m guessing. Can I live with a 60 mph boat? I cruise at that speed now.

wait...av gas for a 300xs opti???
thing is with boats running right at 75-85 mph with a non coned case like a fleet or torquemaster will likely not benifit from going to coned or sportmaster..Its physics as you are adding drag with longer bullet..every boat hull is different and if you can raise bullet higher with low water pickup and still get plenty of lift then that is a plus,but lots of hulls will not gain speed..just my $.02

 

[hallett21]

I was considering the 200r, I’m not chasing any numbers, I’m tired of breaking mids and lowers. Tired of running AV gas. I could sell my 15” 300xs and buy a 200r even swap I’m guessing. Can I live with a 60 mph boat? I cruise at that speed now.

I’m getting mid 60s with a 250xs with a torque master on my vector. And it’s got a ton of crap in the boat.

 

[Outdrive1]

I’m getting mid 60s with a 250xs with a torque master on my vector. And it’s got a ton of crap in the boat.

When broke my mid last time I bought a used 250xs and ran it all season. It ran about 70 with it. Brad Stern has it on his 20 now snd it runs about the same. We are probably a little lighter than your Vector.

 

[Outdrive1]

wait...av gas for a 300xs opti???
thing is with boats running right at 75-85 mph with a non coned case like a fleet or torquemaster will likely not benifit from going to coned or sportmaster..Its physics as you are adding drag with longer bullet..every boat hull is different and if you can raise bullet higher with low water pickup and still get plenty of lift then that is a plus,but lots of hulls will not gain speed..just my $.02

Joe at DBR built the motor. 15” custom mid. And high compression pistons. I’d have to have a Torquemaster made with a 15” shaft to try it.

Another thought, it’s a ski boat with a turn fin. What does a turn fin do for efficiency? Does it disrupt the water flow to gear case? It’s gotta slow the boat down more than a nose cone I would think?? Idk I wanted Joe’s throw down motor like he had on the 21 Daytona he raced the enduro with. Probably a waste on this boat but I had to have it at the time. Daytona runs 35 miles an hour faster than mine does, lol

In a perfect world I want a 4 stroke on a 15” mid that makes 300 plus hp on 87 octane and weighs 400lbs. Shifts easy and never breaks.

 

[Todd Mohr]

In a perfect world I want a 4 stroke on a 15” mid that makes 300 plus hp on 87 octane and weighs 400lbs. Shifts easy and never breaks.

I'll take 2 please.

 

[stoker2001]

Ya. The 225 Promax is great, but if you want the new technology, the 200R has a ton of power. Solid mounts and the 5.44 sportmaster. It generally performs similar to the Promax. An Allison XB21 is running 93 with the 200R, and an xb2003 ran 97.

Allison's are the exception..not the rule...They still hold records from 35-40 years ago....Darious,the owner/manufacture advises NOT to run 300Rs at 575Lbs..not sure what his position is on 200R?I get the deal with OLD motors and parts no longer available

 

[stoker2001]

In a perfect world I want a 4 stroke on a 15” mid that makes 300 plus hp on 87 octane and weighs 400lbs. Shifts easy and never breaks.

I'll take 2 please.

wish in one hand and dream in other I did hear rumor just recently mother Merc is gonna offer 15"

 

[GregG]

The V6 200R weighs 514 lbs with the Sporty on a scale. The V8 300R weighs 561 lbs also with a Sporty. The Promax and the later 225X made 245-247 horsepower on the dyno completely stock and spun 6800 RPM. I'm having a hard time believing that the V6 4stroke 200R with the thicker 5.44" Sportmaster and the extra weight would push a hull faster than a 225X no matter how high you are able to run the lower unit.

At some point dyno runs will be posted for the new 200R V6 four stroke which will shed a lot of light on what Merc is selling

 

[stoker2001]

The V6 200R weighs 514 lbs with the Sporty on a scale. The V8 300R weighs 561 lbs also with a Sporty. The Promax and the later 225X made 245-247 horsepower on the dyno completely stock and spun 6800 RPM. I'm having a hard time believing that the V6 4stroke 200R with the thicker 5.44" Sportmaster and the extra weight would push a hull faster than a 225X no matter how high you are able to run the lower unit.

At some point dyno runs will be posted for the new 200R V6 four stroke which will shed a lot of light on what Merc is selling

100% onboard with this

 

[Outdrive1]

The V6 200R weighs 514 lbs with the Sporty on a scale. The V8 300R weighs 561 lbs also with a Sporty. The Promax and the later 225X made 245-247 horsepower on the dyno completely stock and spun 6800 RPM. I'm having a hard time believing that the V6 4stroke 200R with the thicker 5.44" Sportmaster and the extra weight would push a hull faster than a 225X no matter how high you are able to run the lower unit.

At some point dyno runs will be posted for the new 200R V6 four stroke which will shed a lot of light on what Merc is selling

You’re not looking at the correct model. The new model is 475lbs.

Mercury 200 HP Fourstroke

Up to 30% quieter with 50% less vibration than the competition for Verado-like smoothness. Great for aluminum console, deck, fish & ski, inflatable rigid hull, inshore fishing, multi-species fishing, and runabout boats, and tritoons. Take your time on the water to a whole new level. Mercury...

www.hitechmarine.com.au

 

[wettek]

You’re not looking at the correct model. The new model is 475lbs.

Mercury 200 HP Fourstroke

Up to 30% quieter with 50% less vibration than the competition for Verado-like smoothness. Great for aluminum console, deck, fish & ski, inflatable rigid hull, inshore fishing, multi-species fishing, and runabout boats, and tritoons. Take your time on the water to a whole new level. Mercury...

www.hitechmarine.com.au

Dry weight is substantially different (and lighter) to wet, fully rigged weight.

 

[Outdrive1]

Dry weight is substantially different (and lighter) to wet, fully rigged weight.

It’s the measure that’s used with every motor. If this motor is 475 and a 300r is 515lbs, then it’s 40lbs lighter. They both have rigging

 

[wettek]

It’s the measure that’s used with every motor. If this motor is 475 and a 300r is 515lbs, then it’s 40lbs lighter. They both have rigging

The point being made, be it wet or dry is that the weight difference between the V8 and V6 is minimal, which is pretty disappointing.

 

[Outdrive1]

The point being made, be it wet or dry is that the weight difference between the V8 and V6 is minimal, which is pretty disappointing.

So true

 

[GregG]

You’re not looking at the correct model. The new model is 475lbs.

Mercury 200 HP Fourstroke

Up to 30% quieter with 50% less vibration than the competition for Verado-like smoothness. Great for aluminum console, deck, fish & ski, inflatable rigid hull, inshore fishing, multi-species fishing, and runabout boats, and tritoons. Take your time on the water to a whole new level. Mercury...

www.hitechmarine.com.au

Sorry to say that you are wrong. Merc has been fibbing about weights for years.

The model that I am talking about is the "new" V6 200R from Mercury Racing. The weight of 514 lbs is the 20" with the Sportmaster 5.44" (which is 12lbs heavier then the 4.8TQ) and full of needed fluids, gear lube, and the cowl (22lbs) on the motor. No rigging at all. 514 lbs on a digital scale is what will be hanging off a setback bracket and effecting your CofG.

Oh, and you HAVE to use DTS with the 200R.

 

[CSmith]

For someone like myself who has zero experience "setting up" a boat up to and including rigging, keeping in mind of the weight, I understand the additional weight hanging on the transom can affect the handling characteristics but is 100 lbs really that much to make or break it? I'm just thinking that's like having a small adult sitting on the back seat or not. Yes you can feel it but to me it doesn't seem like enough to throw the boat totally out of wack? Can this be compensated by let's say putting the batteries up front or maybe even if someone were to add a stereo with a subwoofer and speakers under the deck that would be enough to compensate for the 4 stroke?

I'm very interested in this boat since mine has a 2 stroke but getting AV Gas is turning out to be a bit of a chore, and later on down the line when my motor needs rebuilding it may be more appealing to have a 4 stroke.

Curious as to everyone's thoughts who have more experience than myself.

Thanks,
Cody

 

[Ragged Edge]

For someone like myself who has zero experience "setting up" a boat up to and including rigging, keeping in mind of the weight, I understand the additional weight hanging on the transom can affect the handling characteristics but is 100 lbs really that much to make or break it? I'm just thinking that's like having a small adult sitting on the back seat or not. Yes you can feel it but to me it doesn't seem like enough to throw the boat totally out of wack? Can this be compensated by let's say putting the batteries up front or maybe even if someone were to add a stereo with a subwoofer and speakers under the deck that would be enough to compensate for the 4 stroke?

I'm very interested in this boat since mine has a 2 stroke but getting AV Gas is turning out to be a bit of a chore, and later on down the line when my motor needs rebuilding it may be more appealing to have a 4 stroke.

Curious as to everyone's thoughts who have more experience than myself.

Thanks,
Cody

but is 100 lbs really that much to make or break it? This depends on the hull and the set up.

I'm just thinking that's like having a small adult sitting on the back seat or not. Yes you can feel it but to me it doesn't seem like enough to throw the boat totally out of wack? On an outboard the transom is a pivot point or balance point if you prefer. Adding more weight behind that pivot point changes everything. Hulls with a bigger heavier bow could/should work better, hulls with a lighter bow, not so much.

Can this be compensated by let's say putting the batteries up front or maybe even if someone were to add a stereo with a subwoofer and speakers under the deck that would be enough to compensate for the 4 stroke?

Yes, you can move weight forward to compensate for adding weight on the transom. It is really only important if you're chasing big numbers or racing, say the enduro. It should not cause any serious handling issues at lower speeds.

So, if you spend most of your time with the boat playing with family but like the occasional high speed run I would recommend moving some weight forward, if you don't care about top speed, don't worry about it.

My .02 cents anyway.

 

[stingray11]

but is 100 lbs really that much to make or break it? This depends on the hull and the set up.

I'm just thinking that's like having a small adult sitting on the back seat or not. Yes you can feel it but to me it doesn't seem like enough to throw the boat totally out of wack? On an outboard the transom is a pivot point or balance point if you prefer. Adding more weight behind that pivot point changes everything. Hulls with a bigger heavier bow could/should work better, hulls with a lighter bow, not so much.

Can this be compensated by let's say putting the batteries up front or maybe even if someone were to add a stereo with a subwoofer and speakers under the deck that would be enough to compensate for the 4 stroke?

Yes, you can move weight forward to compensate for adding weight on the transom. It is really only important if you're chasing big numbers or racing, say the enduro. It should not cause any serious handling issues at lower speeds.

So, if you spend most of your time with the boat playing with family but like the occasional high speed run I would recommend moving some weight forward, if you don't care about top speed, don't worry about it.

My .02 cents anyway.

True dat but the big problem comes from heavy motor well above the deck because you can't get 15" mid and when you cross a wake sideways the motor goes onto side motion and the boat flips over from center of gravity being too high.Seen it happen.Even at 25-30 mph. Slight less of a problem on a tunnel hull.

 

[Ragged Edge]

True dat but the big problem comes from heavy motor well above the deck because you can't get 15" mid and when you cross a wake sideways the motor goes onto side motion and the boat flips over from center of gravity being too high.Seen it happen.Even at 25-30 mph. Slight less of a problem on a tunnel hull.

Interesting. Most of my experience is with tunnel hulls, specifically the Stoker SST. I am currently racing a Force F21 pad bottom V with a 300R in ski racing. It can be a handful in cross rollers but no flips, yet. Of course, we are limited to prop shaft even with the pad on engine height. Most ski race v bottom outboards are currently around 2" below the pad. The most interesting handling characteristic with my boat is turning into corners at high speed. Have to ease off the gas to let it take a set then get back on the gas, otherwise it just wants to go straight. A 15" mid would help with that a lot, lower the CG.

 

[Firemanjoe]

@Ragged Edge, Kyle will be repowering my Stoker 204 next week with your 300R. Will keep updated with results. I’m excited to see how it runs.

 

[GregG]

For someone like myself who has zero experience "setting up" a boat up to and including rigging, keeping in mind of the weight, I understand the additional weight hanging on the transom can affect the handling characteristics but is 100 lbs really that much to make or break it? I'm just thinking that's like having a small adult sitting on the back seat or not. Yes you can feel it but to me it doesn't seem like enough to throw the boat totally out of wack? Can this be compensated by let's say putting the batteries up front or maybe even if someone were to add a stereo with a subwoofer and speakers under the deck that would be enough to compensate for the 4 stroke?

I'm very interested in this boat since mine has a 2 stroke but getting AV Gas is turning out to be a bit of a chore, and later on down the line when my motor needs rebuilding it may be more appealing to have a 4 stroke.

Curious as to everyone's thoughts who have more experience than myself.

Thanks,
Cody

What model hull do you have and what 2 stroke motor do you have on the back of it that requires AV gas?

 

[Ragged Edge]

@Ragged Edge, Kyle will be repowering my Stoker 204 next week with your 300R. Will keep updated with results. I’m excited to see how it runs.

So am I. Kyle knows what he's doing, he will get it dialed in. I think you will want to put a nose cone on the TM gear case.

 

[CSmith]

What model hull do you have and what 2 stroke motor do you have on the back of it that requires AV gas?

20.1 Stoker
Merc 2.5 280 ROS

 

[GregG]

A stock 280 only requires 94 octane

 

[stoker2001]

@Ragged Edge, Kyle will be repowering my Stoker 204 next week with your 300R. Will keep updated with results. I’m excited to see how it runs.

View attachment 1501203

NICE ride,dont let Mr Al Stoker know about repower...LOL..BIG NO NO in his book

 

[stoker2001]

A stock 280 only requires 94 octane

East coast gets 93 octane and 280s live on it...91 on west coast is big gamble...some mix ACES additive with 91 and get away with it,your mileage may vary..

 

[stoker2001]

Joe at DBR built the motor. 15” custom mid. And high compression pistons. I’d have to have a Torquemaster made with a 15” shaft to try it.

Another thought, it’s a ski boat with a turn fin. What does a turn fin do for efficiency? Does it disrupt the water flow to gear case? It’s gotta slow the boat down more than a nose cone I would think?? Idk I wanted Joe’s throw down motor like he had on the 21 Daytona he raced the enduro with. Probably a waste on this boat but I had to have it at the time. Daytona runs 35 miles an hour faster than mine does, lol

In a perfect world I want a 4 stroke on a 15” mid that makes 300 plus hp on 87 octane and weighs 400lbs. Shifts easy and never breaks.

Are you talking Optimax 300XS (direct injection air pump) or 300X??Joe never ran Opti in Enduro,was 300X platform,big difference!It might of been Optimax 3.2 block/crank with 300X heads/intake/injection,that is the ultimate Combo for torque and would smoke any naturaly asperated four strokes!!

 

[GregG]

East coast gets 93 octane and 280s live on it...91 on west coast is big gamble...some mix ACES additive with 91 and get away with it,your mileage may vary..

Ahhh ......
I did not know that 93 or 94 octane was not available at the pump in California. Back East you can find 94 at the pump from Sunoco.

 

[Outdrive1]

Are you talking Optimax 300XS (direct injection air pump) or 300X??Joe never ran Opti in Enduro,was 300X platform,big difference!It might of been Optimax 3.2 block/crank with 300X heads/intake/injection,that is the ultimate Combo for torque and would smoke any naturaly asperated four strokes!!

Correct, mine is an Optimax on steroids.



I wanted the mid and lower he used. It's still on that 21 Daytona that Romer owns. 15" mid with a fleet master and nose cone. I actually broke my mid at one point and bought the mid off Romers. That was the enduro boat. We sold it at Maxed Out.

 

[HST4ME]

All these new motors destroy the nimbleness and balance of these smaller 2.5 based hulls.