Sand Bar Accident?

[Nordie]

Am I the only one thinking that for a boat accident that RDP has been very nice about this incident? Usually the pitchforks are out and alcohol shaming within 3 or 4 posts.

This one has been handled very respectfully in my opinion. Things happen, and it seems like that's been the general consensus since the beginning.

 

[HullofaTime]

Thanks for the update Awesome to know they're all mending.
I'll say that this particular thread did not negatively go off the rails like most in the past have & if anything it brought up discussion about a bend in the river that has unique characteristics many have felt or been surprised by in their own boats.

Yes that’s true. I wasn’t implying this thread I meant the ones on FB primarily.

 

[Rajobigguy]

Am I the only one thinking that for a boat accident that RDP has been very nice about this incident? Usually the pitchforks are out and alcohol shaming within 3 or 4 posts.

This one has been handled very respectfully in my opinion. Things happen, and it seems like that's been the general consensus since the beginning.

Agreed, haven’t seen anyone accusing alcohol as the culprit or saying that driver ran out of talent, just people trying to understand.

 

[CammdSS]

Glad they’re safe! Hope it wasn’t Rob and Liv… looks like their boat..

 

[JFMFG]

Glad they’re safe! Hope it wasn’t Rob and Liv… looks like their boat..

I think it was from what I heard not 100%

 

[Mr. C]

So you have a Vista Cruiser with the 455 in it

High performance is relative. I have a Caliber 1, it's considered a "performance" boat and will run just over 70 but I wouldn't consider it "high performance". Now someone that has only been on a basic Searay or Bayliner type boat may consider my boat "high performance".

I would consider a boat high performance at 90mph plus but someone like @Bullhead bully would consider a boat that runs 90-95 a cruiser

I like this analogy.
I would definitely consider it a performance boat. If not both of yours high performance as I have a small little 18ft outboard. But perceptions vary.

 

[zhandfull]

What are the chances accident report mentions unsafe speed for the conditions as a factor?

 

[BingerFang]

 

[Orange Juice]

Am I the only one thinking that for a boat accident that RDP has been very nice about this incident? Usually the pitchforks are out and alcohol shaming within 3 or 4 posts.

This one has been handled very respectfully in my opinion. Things happen, and it seems like that's been the general consensus since the beginning.

Waiting until we get the BAC….

 

[HullofaTime]

Waiting until we get the BAC….

0.0%

 

[Mandelon]

So this happens on a turn, but is it the inside sponson or the outside that catches and causes the flip?

 

[adam909]

If your looking up river at the sandbar. is it the turn on the left side or the turn on the right, Infront of the sand bar?

 

[Looking Glass]

One fact about this and any other boat incident or accident, it brings attention and investigation to the area. Those who want anything other than paddling banned receive more ammo.

 

[HullofaTime]

So this happens on a turn, but is it the inside sponson or the outside that catches and causes the flip?

Right turn coming south, port side (left) sponson popped up off a wake

 

[SkyDirtWaterguy]

 

[HullofaTime]

View attachment 1510380

Other way

 

[SkyDirtWaterguy]

Other way

Yep, you are right i was just gonna edit that

 

[Nordie]

Waiting until we get the BAC….

Classy

 

[Bajastu]

Looks like it made the news.

 

[Tooms22]

Right turn coming south, port side (left) sponson popped up off a wake

View attachment 1510383

Other way

Alright, I'm confused.

The whole time, I thought it was the 90 degree turn at the bottom of these screenshots, south of the sandbar.

So, is it the turn to the south or north of the sandbar?

 

[FreeBird236]

Alright, I'm confused.

The whole time, I thought it was the 90 degree turn at the bottom of these screenshots, south of the sandbar.

So, is it the turn to the south or north of the sandbar?

I really don't know where this particular incident happened, but the noticeable currents I believe most people are talking about is at the 90 degree bend South of the sandbar, at least I am.

 

[Javajoe]

I’m thinking here… could be wrong of course

 

[Jay Dub]

I’m thinking here… could be wrong of course

View attachment 1510459

I was thinking this spot as well. The water seems to "boil" or circulate in an odd manner at that corner. In our 255, its not really an issue. However it could be un-nerving if you were not expecting it.

 

[Luv2gofast]

Other way

So happy to hear all will recover!!

Also appreciate all of the informative posts about that section of the river. I agree it's great to have a positive thread and discussion about how not to have this happen to anyone else. That, after hearing all will recover is the best that can come out of a tragedy like this.

Now I'm really confused...that looks like "right turn going south approaching the sand bar", AZ on the left. Is it "other way" ( going north) ? Looks like the boat is against the grass across from the sand bar.

I'm trying to learn from this because I have never noticed the strangeness that has been discussed. For sure I will be on alert next time through that section to try and understand what I'm missing. I expect that I'm probably in the 50 - 70MPH range in that area. I am fairly new to cats, had the Cougar about 5 years now and do most of my sweeping corners with a combination of slight turning and outside throttle. Not sure if that hides the problem or is a bad choice so welcome all input. I have many years in ModVP boats and realize that cats are a different animal.

Thanks,
Bob

 

[Luv2gofast]

I’m thinking here… could be wrong of course

That makes more sense and not going as fast through there!

looked again and still lost!

 

[Javajoe]

If I’m going fast thru that right turn I do a large sweeping turn and my boat seems to still wanna walk a bit since the water is boiling thru there with the currents

 

[HullofaTime]

So happy to hear all will recover!!

Also appreciate all of the informative posts about that section of the river. I agree it's great to have a positive thread and discussion about how not to have this happen to anyone else. That, after hearing all will recover is the best that can come out of a tragedy like this.

Now I'm really confused...that looks like "right turn going south approaching the sand bar", AZ on the left. Is it "other way" ( going north) ? Looks like the boat is against the grass across from the sand bar.

I'm trying to learn from this because I have never noticed the strangeness that has been discussed. For sure I will be on alert next time through that section to try and understand what I'm missing. I expect that I'm probably in the 50 - 70MPH range in that area. I am fairly new to cats, had the Cougar about 5 years now and do most of my sweeping corners with a combination of slight turning and outside throttle. Not sure if that hides the problem or is a bad choice so welcome all input. I have many years in ModVP boats and realize that cats are a different animal.

Thanks,
Bob

In this image arrows showing south bound travel(the direction they were traveling) the last bit of red is where the boat began to roll.

Now generally speaking, (not because of the accident) This section between the two turns gets blown out from traffic, a lot of side to side (parallel with boat) wakes can be present to rock your boat, on top of various speed north and south bound traffic.
I like to go through here at 50 or less on busy weekends, that other turn (the 90) is always sketchy if you don’t know everyone’s intentions on the water, I’d take that with great caution going both ways and once complete, usually it’s sticks down. Of course this is all traffic and condition based. Just saying in my opinion I’d like to see both these turns in both directions taking with a little more respect. The water way width has shrunken after/during that northern turn because of the erosion on the west side extending more east the last few years. With that in mind; use your best judgment as to traffic conditions. (Ex. 23MPH wakeboard boat 31mph pontoon, another 33mph toon on other stride, you know 70mph boat is coming from behind you, and you are doing 50, where you gonna go if one stops? If one veers right or left, if two more are suddenly coming from opposite direction, all of that staggered commotion. May not get mitigated if there isn’t much room to move, on top of a random jet ski darting out of the sand bar)

Of course at 6am it’s a beautiful ride, we just can’t assume that’s how it is all day every weekend. And I would encourage this same mentality at the mouth entering and/or exiting, that is getting worse as well when referring to navigating it in higher traffic numbers and fellow boaters not making their intentions known.
Hope this helps some.

 

[Tooms22]

In this image arrows showing south bound travel(the direction they were traveling) the last bit of red is where the boat began to roll.

Now generally speaking, (not because of the accident) This section between the two turns gets blown out from traffic, a lot of side to side (parallel with boat) wakes can be present to rock your boat, on top of various speed north and south bound traffic.
I like to go through here at 50 or less on busy weekends, that other turn (the 90) is always sketchy if you don’t know everyone’s intentions on the water, I’d take that with great caution going both ways and once complete, usually it’s sticks down. Of course this is all traffic and condition based. Just saying in my opinion I’d like to see both these turns in both directions taking with a little more respect. The water way width has shrunken after/during that northern turn because of the erosion on the west side extending more east the last few years. With that in mind; use your best judgment as to traffic conditions. (Ex. 23MPH wakeboard boat 31mph pontoon, another 33mph toon on other stride, you know 70mph boat is coming from behind you, and you are doing 50, where you gonna go if one stops? If one veers right or left, if two more are suddenly coming from opposite direction, all of that staggered commotion. May not get mitigated if there isn’t much room to move, on top of a random jet ski darting out of the sand bar)

Of course at 6am it’s a beautiful ride, we just can’t assume that’s how it is all day every weekend. And I would encourage this same mentality at the mouth entering and/or exiting, that is getting worse as well when referring to navigating it in higher traffic numbers and fellow boaters not making their intentions known.
Hope this helps some.

So headed southbound, tip of last red arrow, boat rolls (right in front of the sandbar), picture is taken of boat in the reeds?

To me... that means the boat would've barrel rolled towards the sandbar?

Maybe the photo in the reeds was taken later after the current pushed it into the reeds?

Still a little confused.

 

[monkeyswrench]

In any event, where it happened, and when it happened, could have actually been to the occupants advantage. Busy weekends may mean there are a lot of boaters, but being in sight of the sand bar increased the chances of help being close, and people also being able to call for medical support.

A crappy situation for the 5 in the boat, but there's always a silver lining when you can look at it again.

 

[HullofaTime]

So headed southbound, tip of last red arrow, boat rolls (right in front of the sandbar), picture is taken of boat in the reeds?

To me... that means the boat would've barrel rolled towards the sandbar?

Maybe the photo in the reeds was taken later after the current pushed it into the reeds?

Still a little confused.

The boat did float a little more southbound and into reeds very shortly after but yes it rolled at about tip of red arrow and at some point 180 (I believe in the barrel as it was explained, however after the ride they took talking about it wasn’t very easy as thoughts are still being gathered) the way I understood it was, came into turn with engines in a right turn, port side sponson popped up and when it came down it hooked in (right) and rolled/180. So it never went towards sand bar or touched it.

 

[HullofaTime]

In any event, where it happened, and when it happened, could have actually been to the occupants advantage. Busy weekends may mean there are a lot of boaters, but being in sight of the sand bar increased the chances of help being close, and people also being able to call for medical support.

A crappy situation for the 5 in the boat, but there's always a silver lining when you can look at it again.

True, there was a toon helping them immediately a friend said, given the injuries involved I think that is a damn good silver lining they were there.

 

[Tooms22]

The boat did float a little more southbound and into reeds very shortly after but yes it rolled at about tip of red arrow and at some point 180 (I believe in the barrel as it was explained, however after the ride they took talking about it wasn’t very easy as thoughts are still being gathered) the way I understood it was, came into turn with engines in a right turn, port side sponson popped up and when it came down it hooked in (right) and rolled/180. So it never went towards sand bar or touched it.

Got it, makes sense now. Thank you for the explanation.

I think the majority of this thread, people were assuming it was the 90 degree turn.

But it's seeming like a rough water issue rather than a weird turn with swirling currents issue.

 

[Ziggy]

I’ve always liked to be cautious through both those turns and just go slower to keep the boat wet.

 

[wet hull]

Question for the guys that have taken the Tres class? Speaking of the Southern 90° turn what do they tell you would be the proper way to go about that turn at speed? In my cat, single engine, I slow down to about 40 to 50, trim down and as soon as I get bite on inside sponson again I'll give it throttle to come out of the turn to straighten out towards the sandbar while trimming back to level. Sidebar, I know exactly where level is on my gauge. Laser leveled it and was way off from what i thought. Back on track, Almost like you would in a car midway through a turn. My boat definitely leans to the outside sponson in that turn, so I have messed with it over the years with different methods. So far this seems to fit my handling best. Also tell every one to lean right.

 

[Bajastu]

Weird, I would have thought it was the sharp 90* south of the sandbar. The water is a bit turned up in that section due to the sharp bend. I’ve always been in a v-hull or a v-drive, and it never really pushed me around too much. All of my previous boats were under 24’. Driving a cat at speed is a whole different ball game that I’ve never experienced.

 

[Badchoices03]

Weird, I would have thought it was the sharp 90* south of the sandbar. The water is a bit turned up in that section due to the sharp bend. I’ve always been in a v-hull or a v-drive, and it never really pushed me around too much. All of my previous boats were under 24’. Driving a cat at speed is a whole different ball game that I’ve never experienced.

Yes thats the turn that I almost flipped my HTM....

 

[socal0487]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1408073229887728

Same turn

 

[Tank]

I can tell you it’s shallow AF on the inside of that turn. I always go wide there.

 

[BingerFang]

Is this the same turn the Snap-On guy crashed his brand-new Eliminator a few years back?

 

[WildWilly]

I can tell you it’s shallow AF on the inside of that turn. I always go wide there.

Its actually about waist deep. I broke Monday morning just up river and floated to there and jumped out and held the boat waiting for a tow

 

[Tank]

Its actually about waist deep. I broke Monday morning just up river and floated to there and jumped out and held the boat waiting for a tow

I was coming down with a group of boats and 3/4 of the way through the turn dude on the inside was churning up sand wash. Didn’t beach but almost. And it was out far enough I was like WTF?! Note to self.

 

[hawgty55]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1408073229887728

Same turn

Why are you sitting there?

Are you with them videoing them or ?

Just a sketchy place to be floating to me.

 

[Rajobigguy]

I was coming down with a group of boats and 3/4 of the way through the turn dude on the inside was churning up sand wash. Didn’t beach but almost. And it was out far enough I was like WTF?! Note to self.

Yeah a few weeks ago we were heading up to Topoc and a boat on my left was kind of crowding me as he passed and the next thing you know the mud monster reached up and grabbed me. It brought me to a stop. No damage but it surprised me that it was so far off from the shore line. My boat doesn't draft very deep so it needs to be pretty shallow to cause me an issue. I just had the son in law jump out and give a little push and we were free. He was about knee deep.

 

[Boat 405]

Is this the same turn the Snap-On guy crashed his brand-new Eliminator a few years back?

No, that one was headed up river just below the no wake zone at topock.

 

[Socalx09]

There’s three spots I hate on the river. The mouth and both of these turns. I always hold my breath. Two years ago, we were going down to havasu on that turn and had the inside line. A guy really wanted to pass us and went even more inside to the point he had to cut right in front of us which forced us wider and there was a on oncoming boat. It scared the crap out of me. I feel like that is a turn people should be patient on and wait to pass until it is clear. It doesn’t give people much room to navigate if it’s crowded or there’s bad chop.

 

[Tank]

I hate having Other boats around me on the river no matter what. Ok if they’re behind me but I don’t really like
Anyone directly in front of me, I don’t really like passing (but I do it to get away) and I really don’t like running side by side. It’s just to narrow for my liking and not enough room to get away if something bad happens quick. I keep my head on a swivel, looking back regularly. If someone is coming up on me fast, I get out of their way because I like it when people grant me the same courtesy. And I absolutely DETEST being around seadoos. Nothing personal they just don’t look. Passing them gives me the Willy’s every time. Give them a wide fuckin birth.

 

[island time]

In the 90 elbow my pontoon with OB goes all over the place. Wheel turned and it does not react normal. Weird swirling in that area.

Good news is they will all boat again.

 

[DWC]

There’s three spots I hate on the river. The mouth and both of these turns. I always hold my breath. Two years ago, we were going down to havasu on that turn and had the inside line. A guy really wanted to pass us and went even more inside to the point he had to cut right in front of us which forced us wider and there was a on oncoming boat. It scared the crap out of me. I feel like that is a turn people should be patient on and wait to pass until it is clear. It doesn’t give people much room to navigate if it’s crowded or there’s bad chop.

My 3 are the mouth, 90 degree before sandbar and between Riviera and Copper Canyon. When it’s busy and windy it can get pretty brutal. Not scary but head his head n a swivel coming around the corner to site 6. Never know what’s gonna pop out.

 

[gqchris]

There’s three spots I hate on the river. The mouth and both of these turns. I always hold my breath. Two years ago, we were going down to havasu on that turn and had the inside line. A guy really wanted to pass us and went even more inside to the point he had to cut right in front of us which forced us wider and there was a on oncoming boat. It scared the crap out of me. I feel like that is a turn people should be patient on and wait to pass until it is clear. It doesn’t give people much room to navigate if it’s crowded or there’s bad chop.

Thats why I am hoping that Gold Mine place is where all the weekend warriors go to show off. They can run 20 wide over to there and leave the river out of it. I miss the old days.

We all know what is going to happen eventually to those turns. I hope I am wrong and they remain open.

 

[monkeyswrench]

I hate having Other boats around me on the river no matter what. Ok if they’re behind me but I don’t really like
Anyone directly in front of me, I don’t really like passing (but I do it to get away) and I really don’t like running side by side. It’s just to narrow for my liking and not enough room to get away if something bad happens quick. I keep my head on a swivel, looking back regularly. If someone is coming up on me fast, I get out of their way because I like it when people grant me the same courtesy. And I absolutely DETEST being around seadoos. Nothing personal they just don’t look. Passing them gives me the Willy’s every time. Give them a wide fuckin birth.

What's funny, I've spent most of my water time on SeaDoos. I've tried to teach my kids there is the equivalent of the "lugnut rule". Just like being on the streets, bigger vehicle has right of way. They may not see you, so you best make sure to see and respect them. Neither has brakes.
My boats have always been slower, and smaller, so I just try to stay out of the faster lines. There are a couple places north of Moabi that there is really only one line to follow...I've always tried to look ahead and behind, and throttle adjust so I don't enter at the same time.

There's enough water, and I'm in no rush.