WELCOME TO RIVER DAVES PLACE

WTF Just happened?

Shits back up here another 10-15 cents. I would expect no less from this shit hole through
 
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CLdrinker said:
All the Trump nut huggers believe their own bullshit on how great Trump and the right are.

Trump starting this Iran war and putting fuel prices through the roof sealed our fate.

For all of you who back Trumps Iran war you are the problem. If it had to be done he should have delayed it or until after mid terms.

The left has massive momentum. Newsom or Harris will be our next president. Way to fucking go Donald.
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Who was it that drained our strategic oil reserves in a lame ass failed attempt to win an election? BIDEN
That's what the reserve is for.....
Calif. USED to be a major exporter of refined fuels to the NATION....and other parts of the world. Now we're an importer paying the highest rates in the nation thanks to leftist control and tree huggers. Neither of those has to do with DJT.
There's a whole bunch more that goes into the oil situation and fuel prices. The oil Co's have been making record profits this year. They too are a part of the problem.
 
I know that this sucks for you and that you're upset, try to see the bigger picture though:

The Settlers are going to get a TON of new land in South Lebanon
Jared Kushner is already working with partners for his resorts in Gaza
If Trump keeps being a good Soldier like he's been doing then he'll get all of his compromat back from Mossad

I know that you wanted to be able to talk smack your liberal neighbors like you did in 20 and 24, but this isn't your year. Actually it may never be your year again, but if for some reason we ever need you again we'll dupe you into doing more dumb shit on our behalf, I promise!

-Israel
 
t&y said:
I think Trump fucked up with the Iran deal which was a major point of his re-election regarding no new wars. I think had he stuck with the first strike or maybe even a second or third it would be different. But an all out campaign did him in. Risky move and it backfired. I'm not saying Iran didn't need to be dealt with, but it for sure is one of the many reasons we lost big time last night.

I also think there were several insiders, deep state or not, that were tired of Trump not playing along with the usual politics in washington and I'd bet all kinds of behind the scenes deals were struck prior to this election.

You can't ignore the costs of everything at this point. That for sure is on the minds of the voting public, but unfortunately most of them can't see past their monthly gas bill. It is scary that anyone at this point thinks voting Democrat for anything will lower their bills. 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...

Why do you feel that iran needs to be attacked?
 
caribbean20 said:
Sitting here today kind of bummed it feels like the last two years were a squandered opportunity. The Iran war likely not avoidable but those stupid inflation generated tariffs sure as hell were.

To add insult to injury, home state of CO just voted for a tax INCREASE. Sadly this is what happens when there is such a wide divide between the economic classes.

No need to piss and moan, just manage our way through the new landscape.
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Why do you feel like the war with iran was unavoidable? The israelis have been trying to get the US to fight their war with iran since forever, and somehow the US avoided it, so why was it unavoidable NOW?

Were you swayed by the incontrovertible evidence that iran was only TWO WEEKS, JUST TWO WEEKS from getting a nuclear bomb? And by incontrovertible evidence I of course mean a neo-conservative told you that it was so, which has always worked before when it was tried (colin powell and his drawings of iraq's WMD's in 2003)

Do you know how far they are from getting a nuclear bomb now that trump did what he did? They're now just TWO WEEKS AWAY! FROM GETTING A NUCLEAR BOMB! which is why the US (and her greatest ally, ISRAEL that is) simply MUST invade iran and sink their navy (again) before it's too late and we all get vaporized in a big ol mushroom cloud. Because they're two weeks away. And they're (apparently) been two weeks away my whole life.

Trump was either the only one philosemitic enough, COMPROMISED enough or stupid enough to give in and actually do what israel wanted.
 
BarstowCowboy said:
Why do you feel like the war with iran was unavoidable? The israelis have been trying to get the US to fight their war with iran since forever, and somehow the US avoided it, so why was it unavoidable NOW?

Were you swayed by the incontrovertible evidence that iran was only TWO WEEKS, JUST TWO WEEKS from getting a nuclear bomb? And by incontrovertible evidence I of course mean a neo-conservative told you that it was so, which has always worked before when it was tried (colin powell and his drawings of iraq's WMD's in 2003)

Do you know how far they are from getting a nuclear bomb now that trump did what he did? They're now just TWO WEEKS AWAY! FROM GETTING A NUCLEAR BOMB! which is why the US (and her greatest ally, ISRAEL that is) simply MUST invade iran and sink their navy (again) before it's too late and we all get vaporized in a big ol mushroom cloud. Because they're two weeks away. And they're (apparently) been two weeks away my whole life.

Trump was either the only one philosemitic enough, COMPROMISED enough or stupid enough to give in and actually do what israel wanted.
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I remember when they said North Korea was only 2 weeks away.
It went on for years until nobody believed it.
Now they have Nukes
 
wzuber said:
Who was it that drained our strategic oil reserves in a lame ass failed attempt to win an election? BIDEN
That's what the reserve is for.....
Calif. USED to be a major exporter of refined fuels to the NATION....and other parts of the world. Now we're an importer paying the highest rates in the nation thanks to leftist control and tree huggers. Neither of those has to do with DJT.
There's a whole bunch more that goes into the oil situation and fuel prices. The oil Co's have been making record profits this year. They too are a part of the problem.
Click to expand...
So the Iran war has nothing to do with fuel prices? Got it.

We lost the mid terms because Trump is doing a fantastic job. Got it.
 
BarstowCowboy said:
Why do you feel like the war with iran was unavoidable? The israelis have been trying to get the US to fight their war with iran since forever, and somehow the US avoided it, so why was it unavoidable NOW?

Were you swayed by the incontrovertible evidence that iran was only TWO WEEKS, JUST TWO WEEKS from getting a nuclear bomb? And by incontrovertible evidence I of course mean a neo-conservative told you that it was so, which has always worked before when it was tried (colin powell and his drawings of iraq's WMD's in 2003)

Do you know how far they are from getting a nuclear bomb now that trump did what he did? They're now just TWO WEEKS AWAY! FROM GETTING A NUCLEAR BOMB! which is why the US (and her greatest ally, ISRAEL that is) simply MUST invade iran and sink their navy (again) before it's too late and we all get vaporized in a big ol mushroom cloud. Because they're two weeks away. And they're (apparently) been two weeks away my whole life.

Trump was either the only one philosemitic enough, COMPROMISED enough or stupid enough to give in and actually do what israel wanted.
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Note I purposely hedged that assertion by stating “likely” not avoidable. I certainly don’t know. It would seem we had 3 options:

1). Attack
2). Mow the lawn, or
3). Do nothing.

Even with hindsight, still not sure which would have been the best option. Would seem Trump was emboldened with the success in VZ, and he acted hastily despite warnings from his foreign policy advisors. It didn’t work out the way he hoped, so here we are.
 
BarstowCowboy said:
Why do you feel that iran needs to be attacked?
Click to expand...
Is it really that simple? Why do you think Iran needs to attack the United States? Think about that for second, then consider that our "attack" was far more of a defensive move than an all out attack in the sense of who is the aggressor and who has been the target for several decades now.
 
Sandlord said:
I remember when they said North Korea was only 2 weeks away.
It went on for years until nobody believed it.
Now they have Nukes
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Did they nuke anyone yet? I'm pretty sure I can dig up audio of someone assuring us that N korea would nuke us if they ever got the chance. And now we're being reminded that if iran ever gets the chance they'll nuke us.
 
t&y said:
Is it really that simple? Why do you think Iran needs to attack the United States? Think about that for second, then consider that our "attack" was far more of a defensive move than an all out attack in the sense of who is the aggressor and who has been the target for several decades now.
Click to expand...
I don't remember iran attacking the US.
 
caribbean20 said:
Note I purposely hedged that assertion by stating “likely” not avoidable. I certainly don’t know. It would seem we had 3 options:

1). Attack
2). Mow the lawn, or
3). Do nothing.

Even with hindsight, still not sure which would have been the best option. Would seem Trump was emboldened with the success in VZ, and he acted hastily despite warnings from his foreign policy advisors. It didn’t work out the way he hoped, so here we are.
Click to expand...
I'm still waiting for someone to explain how oran threatens the US.
 
caribbean20 said:
Note I purposely hedged that assertion by stating “likely” not avoidable. I certainly don’t know. It would seem we had 3 options:

1). Attack
2). Mow the lawn, or
3). Do nothing.

Even with hindsight, still not sure which would have been the best option. Would seem Trump was emboldened with the success in VZ, and he acted hastily despite warnings from his foreign policy advisors. It didn’t work out the way he hoped, so here we are.
Click to expand...
He should've never attacked them at all. I think he was obligated to do so on behalf of people he's beholden to.
 
t&y said:
Is it really that simple? Why do you think Iran needs to attack the United States? Think about that for second, then consider that our "attack" was far more of a defensive move than an all out attack in the sense of who is the aggressor and who has been the target for several decades now.
Click to expand...
What attacks are we talking about?
 
BarstowCowboy said:
I don't remember iran attacking the US.
Click to expand...
BarstowCowboy said:
What attacks are we talking about?
Click to expand...
Do a little research. Short version is they have been funding groups across the globe attacking U.S. bases/instillations and civilians for decades. It's not just attacks against the U.S. They are widely known and accepted way beyond this administration to support Hezbollah and Hamas. Check them out to.

If you want a quick review, here you go:

www.fdd.org

Iranian and Iranian-Backed Attacks Against Americans (1979-Present)

Armed conflict between the United States and Iran did not begin in 2026, but instead has deep roots that extend back to the 1979 Islamic Revolution. For nearly five decades, the clerical regime in Tehran...
www.fdd.org www.fdd.org

When you are done with that, can you explain why you think they are completely innocent and we had no reason to attack them?
 
@t&y , yes, Iran backed groups have attacked US interests since the 70s. Why does nobody ever mention the US backed groups that have attacked other groups? More importantly, why does nobody ever mention the backing changing to the groups we were having attacked? It seems it's a constant shell game to feed the war pigs, and keep the world in chaos.
 
monkeyswrench said:
@t&y , yes, Iran backed groups have attacked US interests since the 70s. Why does nobody ever mention the US backed groups that have attacked other groups? More importantly, why does nobody ever mention the backing changing to the groups we were having attacked? It seems it's a constant shell game to feed the war pigs, and keep the world in chaos.
Click to expand...


The US administration threatens to “annihilate” all of Iran while demanding their leadership become a puppet of the US and then their backers say…..geez, we are confused, why would Iran want to develop further weapon technologies?

If it wasn’t so sad, it would be laughable.
 
t&y said:
Do a little research. Short version is they have been funding groups across the globe attacking U.S. bases/instillations and civilians for decades. It's not just attacks against the U.S. They are widely known and accepted way beyond this administration to support Hezbollah and Hamas. Check them out to.

If you want a quick review, here you go:

www.fdd.org

Iranian and Iranian-Backed Attacks Against Americans (1979-Present)

Armed conflict between the United States and Iran did not begin in 2026, but instead has deep roots that extend back to the 1979 Islamic Revolution. For nearly five decades, the clerical regime in Tehran...
www.fdd.org www.fdd.org

When you are done with that, can you explain why you think they are completely innocent and we had no reason to attack them?
Click to expand...
Wow, so from out of nowhere starting attacking the US and funding proxies to attack the US? I wonder why. I wonder what they want. I just can't believe they started attacking based on no reasons. What a bunch of kooks.
 
monkeyswrench said:
@t&y , yes, Iran backed groups have attacked US interests since the 70s. Why does nobody ever mention the US backed groups that have attacked other groups? More importantly, why does nobody ever mention the backing changing to the groups we were having attacked? It seems it's a constant shell game to feed the war pigs, and keep the world in chaos.
Click to expand...

No one mentions those things because they conflict with what we've all been told our entire lives, and that's that iran attacks the US without reason nor explanation and that the US has to keep sanctioning them and occasionally taking limited military action against them, otherwise they'll surely nuke us all, and israel is our hapless ally in the region who must be protected both on moral grounds and also because of all the great intelligence they provide the US with (like that time back in 2026 when israel's Mossad shared intelligence with the US president that it would be a good idea to attack iran, you know, based on that GREAT israeli intelligence.

Whenever someone "educates" me on iran/US relations they usually just provide me with a long list of attacks and hostage takings against the US by iran, but there's never any mention of the why of it all, why is it this way, or what events can be said to have lead to it becoming this way? It's always just a one sided tally of violence. I guess history starts whenever iran attacks someone; there's just no need to know what happened beforehand.
 
530RL said:
The US administration threatens to “annihilate” all of Iran while demanding their leadership become a puppet of the US and then their backers say…..geez, we are confused, why would Iran want to develop further weapon technologies?

If it wasn’t so sad, it would be laughable.
Click to expand...
No, that is heresy! Iran just wants to develop weapons to do jihad, Mark Levin and Sean Hannity tell me that this is true!
 
BarstowCowboy said:
Wow, so from out of nowhere starting attacking the US and funding proxies to attack the US? I wonder why. I wonder what they want. I just can't believe they started attacking based on no reasons. What a bunch of kooks.
Click to expand...
Well, you are going to have to square that reasoning away a bit Cowboy, because you have some very staunch Superiest Duperiest Conservativies Regan Era republicans who have repeatedly told us we are bad for defending ourselves against aggression.

Why do the Iranians seem to want to kill us? A big difference in Ideology would be my best guess. They will never accept what this nation is and how we are able to exist. Not sure how any of this could be new news to anybody at this point.

But you seem to be very educated on the matter, so why don't you tell us why they are attacking us. Go ahead and start from the beginning.
 
monkeyswrench said:
@t&y , yes, Iran backed groups have attacked US interests since the 70s. Why does nobody ever mention the US backed groups that have attacked other groups? More importantly, why does nobody ever mention the backing changing to the groups we were having attacked? It seems it's a constant shell game to feed the war pigs, and keep the world in chaos.
Click to expand...
I don't deny any of that. I am all for being the aggressor when "other groups" have obvious intentions to harm us. Not sure why that is a controversial topic. 🤷‍♂️
 
BarstowCowboy said:
No one mentions those things because they conflict with what we've all been told our entire lives, and that's that iran attacks the US without reason nor explanation and that the US has to keep sanctioning them and occasionally taking limited military action against them, otherwise they'll surely nuke us all, and israel is our hapless ally in the region who must be protected both on moral grounds and also because of all the great intelligence they provide the US with (like that time back in 2026 when israel's Mossad shared intelligence with the US president that it would be a good idea to attack iran, you know, based on that GREAT israeli intelligence.

Whenever someone "educates" me on iran/US relations they usually just provide me with a long list of attacks and hostage takings against the US by iran, but there's never any mention of the why of it all, why is it this way, or what events can be said to have lead to it becoming this way? It's always just a one sided tally of violence. I guess history starts whenever iran attacks someone; there's just no need to know what happened beforehand.
Click to expand...
Oh, so this discussion is one you have all the time I guess. Please educate the class as to why the United States is such an existential threat to everyone. And to further that, if you really believe that to be true, why are you here?
 
t&y said:
I don't deny any of that. I am all for being the aggressor when "other groups" have obvious intentions to harm us. Not sure why that is a controversial topic. 🤷‍♂️
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I don't see that as the problem at all. I have issues with our country funding jihad, then funding anti-jihad, and at times even polishing a turd, putting them in a suit, and calling them an ally. A lot of the middle east probably dislikes us and the English for playing puppet master there for the past 100 years.
 
Sandlord said:
Because the Quran tells them to kill us.
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Kill them wherever you come upon them and drive them out of the places from which they have driven you out. For persecution is far worse than killing. And do not fight them at the Sacred Mosque unless they attack you there. If they do so, then fight them—that is the reward of the disbelievers.

This is the verse (or whatever they call it) that people usually cite, but most of the time they stop after the part about killing them wherever you come upon them. If you keep reading it's clear that this verse isn't talking about just any infidels in any situation, but rather infidels who have driven you out of a place where you were previously located. It also mentions persecution as a possible justification. So that's two justifications for killing infidels that were listed. The way this verse is usually presented is as a blanket authorization to kill infidels, no justification needed, but as you can see it's clear that whoever wrote this felt the need to list reasons that would justify killing infidels. Also, if the tone seems a little off, if it seems unreasonable to kill someone over a real estate dispute, remember that this was written 14 centuries ago in a land that was very different from where your ancestors were 14 centuries ago.
 
t&y said:
Well, you are going to have to square that reasoning away a bit Cowboy, because you have some very staunch Superiest Duperiest Conservativies Regan Era republicans who have repeatedly told us we are bad for defending ourselves against aggression.
israel
Why do the Iranians seem to want to kill us? A big difference in Ideology would be my best guess. They will never accept what this nation is and how we are able to exist. Not sure how any of this could be new news to anybody at this point.

But you seem to be very educated on the matter, so why don't you tell us why they are attacking us. Go ahead and start from the beginning.
Click to expand...
I barely graduated high school. I think maybe the problems started back when the US decided to overthrow their leaders and install leaders in order to assist British Petroleum in their efforts to resist iran nationalizing their oil industry. That happened in 1953, about 4 years into israel's existence and just after the arab israeli conflict, and having a pro-western democracy in iran as opposed to a theocracy was good for israel. I think this is why the iranians and the americans have had the relationship that they've had since then. I don't think it has to do with iranians being hopping mad about all of our freedoms or our non-islamic way of life. I remember when Bush said that after 9/11, that they attacked us because of our freedom. That was a load of shit in 2001, it was a load of shit in 1953, and it remains a load of shit today.
 
was thatguy said:
Have you guys seriously forgotten almost 50 years of Iran murdering Americans?
Really?
No wonder we are where we are at…
“Never forget” my ass.
Unreal.
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No I have not forgot that. But I also have never forgot that it was the United States that funded, armed, backed and put in place the leadership of Iraq who killed over 750,000 Iranians.

Nobody has clean hands here, and acting like either side does will never lead to a tenable solution.
 
BarstowCowboy said:
Kill them wherever you come upon them and drive them out of the places from which they have driven you out. For persecution is far worse than killing. And do not fight them at the Sacred Mosque unless they attack you there. If they do so, then fight them—that is the reward of the disbelievers.

This is the verse (or whatever they call it) that people usually cite, but most of the time they stop after the part about killing them wherever you come upon them. If you keep reading it's clear that this verse isn't talking about just any infidels in any situation, but rather infidels who have driven you out of a place where you were previously located. It also mentions persecution as a possible justification. So that's two justifications for killing infidels that were listed. The way this verse is usually presented is as a blanket authorization to kill infidels, no justification needed, but as you can see it's clear that whoever wrote this felt the need to list reasons that would justify killing infidels. Also, if the tone seems a little off, if it seems unreasonable to kill someone over a real estate dispute, remember that this was written 14 centuries ago in a land that was very different from where your ancestors were 14 centuries ago.
Click to expand...
Whas' up GMAC? You doin ok?
 
530RL said:
No I have not forgot that. But I also have never forgot that it was the United States that funded, armed, backed and put in place the leadership of Iraq who killed over 750,000 Iranians.

Nobody has clean hands here, and acting like either side does will never lead to a tenable solution.
Click to expand...
I'll agree here pretty much 100%. But, if WE don't try to shape world in our favor, Russia, China and the rest, most assuredly will.

You yourself stood on Ukraines side to push back the Russian Bear. Again, I agree.

It's an ugly business but I think it's a necessary evil. Weren't you part of some of this in South America?
 
t&y said:
Oh, so this discussion is one you have all the time I guess. Please educate the class as to why the United States is such an existential threat to everyone. And to further that, if you really believe that to be true, why are you here?
Click to expand...
Well, I was born here, and I've been here ever since. I don't feel any need to move based on the fact that you and I disagree on a few things.

I don't recall saying that the US is an existential threat to everyone, therefore I don't see why I need to justify a claim I did not make.

Do you believe that iran is an existential threat to the US?
 
monkeyswrench said:
I don't see that as the problem at all. I have issues with our country funding jihad, then funding anti-jihad, and at times even polishing a turd, putting them in a suit, and calling them an ally. A lot of the middle east probably dislikes us and the English for playing puppet master there for the past 100 years.
Click to expand...
Are you talking about Joseph Aoun?
 
BarstowCowboy said:
I don't believe we've ever met, but I bet I can guess what the AH stands for.
Click to expand...
That's right. This forum HATES bicycles and bicycle riders. I used to be Nganga, but I figured, why not just embellish the hate. I am now

Skinny Tire Asshole, since everyone on bikes is an asshole.
 
BarstowCowboy said:
What obvious intentions were detected this time?
Click to expand...
Many over the years which you seem to dismiss. And according to several sources, not just the administration you obviously don't trust, along with developing their nuclear weapon capability, they were very close to having the ability to deliver that nuke long distance along with their other missle programs. Again, it's not just this administration saying that. Shit, most presidents and even the beloved Heals Up Harris recognized that Iran was one of if not our greatest threat.

And for fun are you suggesting we just ignore their constant rantings about death to America? Are you denying that too exists?

BarstowCowboy said:
Well, I was born here, and I've been here ever since. I don't feel any need to move based on the fact that you and I disagree on a few things.

I don't recall saying that the US is an existential threat to everyone, therefore I don't see why I need to justify a claim I did not make.

Do you believe that iran is an existential threat to the US?
Click to expand...
Has nothing to do with us disagreeing. You've taken the obvious position that we as in the U.S. are the cause of all these issues. Why would you then remain here and support it?

Are they an existential threat to the U.S.? Yes, unless we are just supposed to ignore what they repeat regularly.
 
monkeyswrench said:
I don't see that as the problem at all. I have issues with our country funding jihad, then funding anti-jihad, and at times even polishing a turd, putting them in a suit, and calling them an ally. A lot of the middle east probably dislikes us and the English for playing puppet master there for the past 100 years.
Click to expand...
Trust me. I'd love it we could just say fuck'em all, pull everything back, and let them kill each other. But we both know this shit has been going on long before you or I were on the earth, and until they or we are eradicated, it will continue.
 
t&y said:
I think Trump fucked up with the Iran deal which was a major point of his re-election regarding no new wars. I think had he stuck with the first strike or maybe even a second or third it would be different. But an all out campaign did him in. Risky move and it backfired. I'm not saying Iran didn't need to be dealt with, but it for sure is one of the many reasons we lost big time last night.

I also think there were several insiders, deep state or not, that were tired of Trump not playing along with the usual politics in washington and I'd bet all kinds of behind the scenes deals were struck prior to this election.

You can't ignore the costs of everything at this point. That for sure is on the minds of the voting public, but unfortunately most of them can't see past their monthly gas bill. It is scary that anyone at this point thinks voting Democrat for anything will lower their bills. 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...
To answer the question that the thread is based on, which was why did the republicans do so poorly in the election, I don't know what their majorities were in each chamber before the election but I believe that they should've expected to do poorly and to lose their majorities because that's always what happens to the party in power in a midterm election, with limited exceptions, so I am told. If there was anything spectacular about their losses this time I would attribute that to the poor economic situation and people's dissatisfaction with being asked to sacrifice in the name of israel. White men are (or maybe were) one of trump's largest supporter demographics and I don't think he's done anything to earn their loyalty, and it's possible that they didn't show up for him due to that reason. If anyone has detected any kind of voter fraud that could account for the loss I haven't heard about it yet.
 
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