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Debating On Moving To Italy..

941Punk

941Punk

some beach, somewhere.
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I've been wrestling with a pretty big life decision lately and I've been talking with my wife about moving to Italy full time.

I'm 51, my wife is 58, and and some of you know that we own a house outright in a tiny village in Italy. We're seriously considering selling everything here in Florida (the house, boat, truck, Jeep, all of it) and moving there full-time with just suitcases. The housing cost and utilities alone is ridiculously low (like 1.5-2k a year out the door), and I can keep working remotely at my American job, potentially saving $40K or more a year and retiring comfortably around 62. In the states, I think I'll be working like a slave to till I'm dead.

The hard part isn't Italy; I love it there. It's giving up the American lifestyle I've spent years building. While I love all the things that us guys on this forum do in our lives, the irony: the boat hasn't been in the water in over a year, the Jeep barely gets used, and I spend most of my life working to maintain things I rarely have time to enjoy.

To be honest, mentally, I've kinda checked out of all of it.

Italy would mean a much more simpler life and hopefully a lot less financial stress, just changing my hours of work to USA hours. Giving me all day to do, something! I'm excited about the possibility, but selling everything and closing that chapter is a hell of a mental hurdle.
 
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The irony of our ancestors leaving to make a better life. Only for us to want to leave for a better life.

I get it. I have family in portugal still. If i didnt have kids i would strongly consider it. But then my cousins come here and they want to stay. Because of the boats and guns and all the fun stuff. But they dont stay when they realize what it costs me. 🤷
 
You only have 1 life to live. Italy wouldn't be my cup of tea, but different strokes for different folks if that's where you are happy why would you even question it. I turned 50 this year and I would love to move outta Vegas, I am starting more and more to plan my departure.
 
I've been to Italy for 1-1/2 days inspecting stone. Its cool and all, but I have no intentions on going back. If I were to move somewhere outside the county, It would be on a tropical island/land with a fishing boat and a dirt bike.
 
Sounds amazing and I don't blame you one bit....I have gone down the cheap house in italy rabbit hole.

I think it would be amazing to live in a little Italian village for a couple months at a time. Perhaps i could figure out a schedule that would keep me occupied and busy. I think i would need to find a job i wanted to do...maybe learn to make cheese,work at a small bistro a couple days a week or perhaps learn the cobler trade.

If we are talking straight retirement I think I would be bored out of my mind and turn into a fat alcoholic....I need something to do as I don't idle well.

I also couldn't leave the kid.
 
Italy is wonderful. What area is your house located in?

I've traveled through Italy several times. I could stay for several weeks/month. But I'd miss friends and family here in the US too much. I couldn't live abroad permanently.

Would you work towards citizenship or come back and forth enough to stay legal? Not sure the visa rules.
 
I spent a week in Umbria. Specifically,
Assisi. You don’t seem likely type a guy that could spend your life sitting around. I saw a few people touring thier Adventure, bikes.
Rome is a shit hole.
If I could be near the water it might work
 
You posted pics of your place and the village. It looks absolutely amazing. It would come down to family for me. We moved to AZ 14 years ago now, for the same reasons you listed. At the time, it was a culture shock...we always lived in SoCal. Everything was within an hour, and 24/7. Busier here now, but still a 100 mile drive for big city stuff. There's also a question of health issues, if any. Looking back, being around a bigger city would have been helpful, but at the time it wasn't a question to cross our minds.
 
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81Sprint said:
You only have 1 life to live. Italy wouldn't be my cup of tea, but different strokes for different folks if that's where you are happy why would you even question it. I turned 50 this year and I would love to move outta Vegas, I am starting more and more to plan my departure.
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Where are you looking at going? In Boulder City and looking at moving also.
 
Italy is a great country for an adventure ... but where exactly would you be living? This will make a huge difference. IMO the north is where you want to be (North of Rome). For the most part native Northen Italians are pretty similar to North Americans as far as work ethic and values go.
Do you and your wife speak some Italian? ... and how's your soccer?
 
rivermobster said:
My vote would be for whatever path leads you to retirement sooner.

I'm never bored. Dig having the time to go to the gym again. Being able to do what I want, whenever I want.

There is Nothing better than being retired. 👍🏼
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I beg to differ. :) Not being retired yet still controlling your schedule and do what you want.
 
As someone who is currently adding liabilities to my stable, I like having shit to tinker with. I like having horsepower, guns, truck, boat, etc. We're actually pulling back on travel besides driving within 4 hour of the house.

But I also feel the pressure of paying for the stuff and making the time to use it. So I get it.

My .02 - I would get rid of the stuff you don't use first. See if you like having a lot less. Some others have mentioned a 3-6 month trial run. I think that's for the best. Working US hours in Europe and then trying to enjoy your time out there doesn't sound super easy to me.
 
I assume you know Italian, correct? Are you in control of your income, or do you work for someone else?

I would dump the liabilities of the boat and jeep, rent the house, keep my shit in storage, and move for a few months to try it out.
 
lakemadness said:
Italy is wonderful. What area is your house located in?

I've traveled through Italy several times. I could stay for several weeks/month. But I'd miss friends and family here in the US too much. I couldn't live abroad permanently.

Would you work towards citizenship or come back and forth enough to stay legal? Not sure the visa rules.
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A hilltop village in Molise. It would be a long term visa with residency.

McKay said:
What is stopping you from going and trying it out for 3-6 months first before selling everything stateside?
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I normally stay 2-3 months at a time. 90 days is max. I had no problems living over there in that time.

JDKRXW said:
Italy is a great country for an adventure ... but where exactly would you be living? This will make a huge difference. IMO the north is where you want to be (North of Rome). For the most part native Northen Italians are pretty similar to North Americans as far as work ethic and values go.
Do you and your wife speak some Italian? ... and how's your soccer?
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In between Rome and Naples. We have integrated realllly well. Si, io parlo italiano.. ma calcio, ho due piedi sinistri. 🤌
 
Xtrmwakeboarder said:
I assume you know Italian, correct? Are you in control of your income, or do you work for someone else?

I would dump the liabilities of the boat and jeep, rent the house, keep my shit in storage, and move for a few months to try it out.
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My income is not controlled by me, but my employee number is #2 and 18 years in. I own my home there.
 
941Punk said:
My income is not controlled by me, but my employee number is #2 and 18 years in. I own my home there.
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Unfortunately that doesn’t mean much if someone comes in and wants to write ownership a big check. I’ve seen it firsthand.

Learn Italian and do a test run. I would have come out ahead if I did that when moving to TX for 2 years and still got the adventure.
 
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I thought about it. I have dual citizenship with the EU so hard part is already done. But I don't think I could go through with it, couldn't give all this up. I'd at least have to spend some time in the US each year doing the things I love.

I spent 3 months in Europe this Summer including Italy, and it was great, but it was also great to be back home! The worst part for me in Europe was the diet. I'm fat and on a low carb diet which is working well but it was nearly impossible to do there from a temptation perspective. From a practical perspective it's also easier here, not just restaurants, but so many great options here I can load up on at Costco/HEB/trader joes for quickly making food at home.

That aside, I loved it there. Life is more traditional and old school and more natural. But life is also HARDER over there, a lot less little luxuries compared to what we're used to out here. I could name dozens of things. But there's also dozens of things that we don't have here. So it's a question of trade-offs, all else being equal.
 
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Cole Trickle said:
a fat alcoholic....
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i see no issue
traquer said:
I thought about it. I have dual citizenship with the EU so hard part is already done. But I don't think I could go through with it, couldn't give all this up. I'd at least have to spend some time in the US each year doing the things I love.

I spent 3 months in Europe this Summer including Italy, and it was great, but it was also great to be back home! The worst part for me in Europe was the diet. I'm fat and on a low carb diet which is working well but it was nearly impossible to do there from a temptation perspective. From a practical perspective it's also easier here, not just restaurants, but so many great options here I can load up on at Costco/HEB/trader joes for quickly making food at home.
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Yes the breads and butters. Italy, pastas. But so much more seafood and better/fresher ingredients. Hell even the milk is different. But the seafood. Mmmmmmmm to be fair, I often when i go it's to an island. So that plays into it also.

Man you guys are making me want to go visit europe. I can taste the damn expresso and cheap beer now.
 
Justsomeguy said:
i see no issue

Yes the breads and butters. Italy, pastas. But so much more seafood and better/fresher ingredients. Hell even the milk is different. But the seafood. Mmmmmmmm to be fair, I often when i go it's to an island. So that plays into it also.

Man you guys are making me want to go visit europe. I can taste the damn expresso and cheap beer now.
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That's very true. I'm not the biggest seafood fan so I always avoided trying it there, maybe I should have. I could see Italian seafood being amazing. I didn't enjoy the food in Portugal when I was there including the fish, too bland. Italian food is 10x better but also more carbs!
 
traquer said:
That's very true. I'm not the biggest seafood fan so I always avoided trying it there, maybe I should have. I could see Italian seafood being amazing. I didn't enjoy the food in Portugal when I was there including the fish, too bland. Italian food is 10x better but also more carbs!
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Tell me where you went. Im revoking their portuguese card! It should have been marinated in garlic and wine cause everything we make has garlic and wine! 🤣

Theres these mussels called lapas. Mmmmmmm my uncle makes the best in his outdoor brick stove. Lots.of garlic.
 
We were considering visiting Portugal with the intention of possibly moving there for a year or more back in 2024. Then the tax advantages they had in place ended. Now we are going to the Netherlands for the MXoN next October, and will leave Amsterdam for Portugal after the race. Still planning other countries but expect to spend at least 10 days in Portugal. Probably take the trains from Amsterdam to Portugal so we can see a lot of countryside while maximizing time on Portugal. Hoped to do just a day or two in Paris but things are kinda spicy over there now.
 
We have family on my dads side in Italy. Goes back centuries.
My Aunt Mary even hugged Mussolini.

Retiring is one way, it’s what you make of it.
If starting a business of any kind is Impossible.
 
OK - Been there , done that. For us it was 1976-1980. We were young newly weds. We wanted to work foreign to save “tax free” money to buy a home back in the US. We lived full time, in a very small seaside village on the northern Adriatic, south of Venice. We achieved our goal when we returned to the US. We lived in Marina di Ravenna. When I say small, it is still small, only about 2,400 people. Looking back, we jumped in with both feet. We took no trips outside of the area, If it wasn’t available in our village, my wife learned how to make it. We both did our best to learn the language. I learned the dockside work Italian, my wife learned proper Italian. Those worlds collided when we were hosting a barbeque for a few friends. My wife walked into the tiny local butcher shop, and her best Italian, proudly ordered “4 kilos of Pig Cocks”. The Italian version of “cock” and “ribs” are extremely similar. You can guess who rightfully got the blame for that. In all seriousness, “speaking the language” is much more than knowing how to say “2 left feet”. Political environment. While we were living there, the Communist Party was the majority. The Italians we knew were NOT communists. But, if they thought they’d could get something for nothing, they’d grab it. The leader of Italy was kidnapped and murdered while we were living there. Given the present world political situation, I wouldn’t even try to guess how things may be in Italy now. I do recall all of the local Italians knew we were “The Americans”.

We could have stayed longer. My US company urged us to do that. But, we knew we were ready to Come Home. Even at our young ages, everything was just a hassle and a PIA. Trying to buy a car (US citizens could only buy NEW cars), having a TV (there was a tax), having your paper work ready to display at all times, shopping, clothes and just basic essentials. We did it, got by, but we were done.

Vacation, visit or even extending stay. . . . .OK. But, to live there FULL TIME? No thanks. There’s no place like the US.

BTW - Jimmy Carter F’d us on the No Tax we’d expected.
 
I spent 8 months in Italy, waiting to get my Canadian Visa to enter Canada legally. Spent a month in Trieste in the refugee camp, before traveling down to the city of Latina camp. I had a fabulous time in Itally,I was let to travel after the two weeks of interrogation in Trieste, two weeks visiting local restaurants in the sesaide town, enjoying my new found freedom. Everyone was sent to Latina or Capua South of Rome by train. I found a motorbike in Trieste by the pier by the Adriatic sea. Found out, the owner I actually knew from elementary school in Budapest, left the bike there and skipped over to Austria that we heard was much faster to get immigration status in western Europe, hehe. I made a key to unlock the handle bar to move the bike. went to the questura at the camp and told them the story and voila. No fuss whatsoever, became the rightful owner of the bike with papers issued haha. The bike was an East German MZ125cc unit.The real reason now I'm sure the officials were so laid back about it because they didn;t have to fork out the train ride cost.
;)
We're talking about hundreds of people to be escorted/fed on the trip.In my 2 weeks freedom time in Trieste, I have traveled to Venice twice with some friends who had a car. First time, it was low tide and stunk in Venice , next time was better with normal tide. When leftTrieste for Latina [ hundreds of kilometers ] I had thousands if liras. but little I've known was not nearly enough for gas, even for a 125cc two stroke.
:eek:
I made it to somewhere to Ravenna or Foligno not sure which, and got my first flat tire late night.
🤔
Parked the bike on the road across a house and figured I'll sleep on the roadside til morning to get the flat fixed. Around 11 pm, I see a VW microbus coming by and turn in behind the house across. Guy comes out at the front door, looking at me and the bike and walks towards me. I started learning Italian already in the ref camp, so I coud communicate somewhat with the guy. He invited me to his house, pushing my bike to park at a shed there, Whoa, what did I see there? A 1938 Moto Guzzi Falcon, red of course. I knew then I was with great company. Slept there and in the morning he took my wheel/tire, to a shop hew knew. Had breakfast and we started talking about my trip. He calculated how much fuel I needed to get to Latina and came to the conclusion I didn't have enogh money to make it. He gave me 3000 lira and made it to Latina. Before I left he shown me what his business is. Behind the house, there were huge rollup doors sloping down below the house , which had like 5 huge SS tanks full of red wine. He owned a vineyard nearby. He asked me to write him how I made it in Canada. The hospitality was amazing throughout my time between Aug 1970 and April 1971. I could write a book of this short time of traveling from Trieste all the way to Napoli/Naples, Pompei, Island of Capri. with a few of my mates we could climb up to the rim of the Vesuvius , touching rocks, warm by steam coming through the cracks. I'm sure it's closed to going up there now. I found a local guy with a camera shop so I could make some money for my endeavours. He wanted me to stay in Latina, but wanted to be the other side of the pond of Europe.
;)
Sadly Italy became socialist with commies wreaking havoc for the time like Stephenkatse mentioned.
 
We lived in Spain from 1983-1987, I was in the Air Force, the wife wasn’t at the time. The base offered us base housing and we declined it. We wanted live with locals. We found a nice 3 bedroom flat,rent was $120.00.month. Zaragoza wasn’t some sleepy little town, it was a million population. We loved it there. My best friend while there was Carlo’s, he spoke no English and I spoke very little spainish. We hung out for years and never had an argument,go figure! We didn’t come back to the states the whole time we were there. Quite a cultural shock returning to the US. I would do it all again, we enjoyed every moment of being there.😎
 
I have been bless to make it to Italy a couple times. My bookkeeper has children that live there. He just won his battle with cancer last year. His wife is a natural citizen of Spain. They sold everything. Wylie is renting this awesome little flat overlooking the ocean. He has been back twice to the states. It was his wife’s dream, not his. Just make sure everyone is on the same page. Wylie told me to really think it thru if you ever need to make that decision. I was shocked. He is a pretty simple guy. Good news is once he settles in, his family is an easy train ride away.
 
traquer said:
Life is more traditional and old school and more natural. But life is also HARDER over there, a lot less little luxuries compared to what we're used to out here. I could name dozens of things. But there's also dozens of things that we don't have here. So it's a question of trade-offs, all else being equal.
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I think that sums it up nicely. Quality of most everything is higher in Europe, but you need to work harder for it: less prepared food, worse store hours, cars with tiny engines.

Like you buy a piece of Parmesan cheese and grate it yourself, instead of buying it pre-grated in a plastic bag.
 
I’ll make it short cause I’m not an expert in this, but I’ve been to Italy many times and we have friends that moved there three years ago
A few things remember, you can’t buy a car until you’ve been there at least two years

if somehow, you can work your way after two years to get Italian citizenship that would help. You can lease a car.

Don’t expect all the conveniences of the United States and go to every store and get whatever you want. It’s not that way no matter what city and I’ve been to all the majors and most of the minors.

Food is not expensive. There’s plenty of fresh food and vegetables all the time that’s why Italians are for the most part so healthy.

The roads suck the in roads in large cities suck even more. The trains are pretty good. They run crazy on time most of the time.

The people are fine to be around if you’re looking at an older place good luck on having it refurbished it may take years

You better have plenty of your own money starting a business serve. The regulations are overwhelming is 40 or $50,000 to get a license to do a taxi or Uber


We fly business class all the time so with that comes generally more successful people on the flight and we see Italians and the ones under 40 are really sharp. they told us we’re so lucky to live in America because the regulations and most of your especially Italy are so enormous. It’s very difficult to be successful.
 
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Flying business class is one of the things that you would likely give up on if you were to move to Europe.

Some European countries, e.g. Sweden, have less onerous regulations than the US, though. Italy is known for being incredibly difficult.
 
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