California framing help

[badluck]

How the hell do I figure out the bevel on the valley? I did it 10 years ago but now I can't figure it out. 4 on 12 roof. I ordered trusses footprint the hip but I need to California frame the top part. I busted out the Riechers rafter book but I can't figure it out. My brain seems to be full of grey matter lately. Can't visualize shit. I know I can scribe it and trimulate it but I want to not do it that way.

 

[28Eliminator]

Lol.. go buy a speed square [emoji106]


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[badluck]

Got me a speed square and a squangle.

 

[badluck]

I'm guessing not many carpenters cut roofs anymore. Probably a lost art. Or an art that is fading.

 

[DirtyWhiteDog]

4/12 is 18.43* backcut about 82*ish
Hip/valley 13 5* backcut 87* ish
Just off the top of my head, good enough for a skill saw.

 

[Mandelon]

http://zo-d.com/stuff/how-do-i/how-to-use-the-swanson-speed-square-as-a-framing-square.html

 

[Pelon]

4 - 17 on your square

 

[28Eliminator]

I'm guessing not many carpenters cut roofs anymore. Probably a lost art. Or an art that is fading.

Definitely a lost art. Still a lot of California’s, but not much beyond that. I haven’t stacked a roof in 20 Years.. lol.

They used to make 12” speed squares also.. not sure if you can still get them.

 

[500bbc]

It's 4:17 on a framing square.

Speaking of which, try and find someone that actually knows how to use a framing square.

 

[braindead]

Measure twice, keep cutting until it fits

 

[Mandelon]

And then bash it in with the framing hammer.

 

[Heylam]

Built a lot of stairs back in the day laying risers out with a framing square.

 

[DC-88]

It's 4:17 on a framing square.

Speaking of which, try and find someone that actually knows how to use a framing square.

Right? Freeze block to the hip or Val with one was always the best... To the op are u looking for the angle of your jacks off the 2 x flat sleeper of a cal-fill valley within your hip truss package after sheathing the fill? That's just seat cut angle (square back off common 4/12 plumb cut), then compound cut at slope --

 

[500bbc]

And then bash it in with the framing hammer.

Double jack to get it right

Right? Freeze block to the hip or Val with one was always the best... To the op are u looking for the angle of your jacks off the 2 x flat sleeper of a cal-fill valley within your hip truss package after sheathing the fill? That's just seat cut angle (square back off common 4/12 plumb cut), then compound cut at slope --

To the OP, valley jack at 4:17, cut will be with your saw table at 18.5 degrees, if your good you can cut them all on the horses after taping the first one.

Built a lot of stairs back in the day laying risers out with a framing square.

Best piece work there was.
I still have my first set of stair gauges around here somewhere.

 

[highvoltagehands]

Right? Freeze block to the hip or Val with one was always the best... To the op are u looking for the angle of your jacks off the 2 x flat sleeper of a cal-fill valley within your hip truss package after sheathing the fill? That's just seat cut angle (square back off common 4/12 plumb cut), then compound cut at slope --

I was going to say same thing. lol. Its a simple migraine cut, Gonna require aspirin. : )~ Glad i'm a Powerlineman, only saw we use is chainsaw.

 

[badluck]

Got it. I got the bevel 3-1/8 for the 2x12 going up the valley. Found that on the internet but I want to know how to get it without the internet.

 

[badluck]

Here is the bevel I’m trying to figure out

 

[28Eliminator]

View attachment 612340 Here is the bevel I’m trying to figure out

You don’t need to bevel the sleeper. Leave it square, and cut the jacks to the edge. That gap to the roof is minimal and irrelevant.


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[braindead]

Hard to explain but this is correct. You take the standard 4&12 hip/Val degree number which is approx 13.5 and subtract it from 90*

it's because you're cutting lumber to sit on something horizontal instead of vertical (the ridge). So you have to change up your starting point by 90*

And then beat it in with a hammer

4/12 is 18.43* backcut about 82*ish
Hip/valley 13 5* backcut 87* ish
Just off the top of my head, good enough for a skill saw.

 

[braindead]

Sorry, I was a little slow. You cutting rafters or the sleeper?

If it's the sleepers, leave it square and just run your plywood past so it rests on the other plywood . The beveled sleeper is irrelevant, unless your some OCD nutjob whose not gonna sleep because an 1 1/2" of the plywood edge isn't supported completely

If it's the rafter refer to my previous post

 

[DC-88]

You don’t need to bevel the sleeper. Leave it square, and cut the jacks to the edge. That gap to the roof is minimal and irrelevant.


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This....^^^^^^ the term "california" in front of anything dealing with framing means shortcut anyway

 

[DirtyWhiteDog]

Hard to explain but this is correct. You take the standard 4&12 hip/Val degree number which is approx 13.5 and subtract it from 90*

it's because you're cutting lumber to sit on something horizontal instead of vertical (the ridge). So you have to change up your starting point by 90*

And then beat it in with a hammer

Yes, exactly. Backcut is same angle off off 90* bevel cut is whatever the roof is. Let the plywood span the gap off the sleeper.
Stairs and roofs were awesome piece work, but plywood at $.06 per sqft was easy money, bought my first nailgun in 1985.

 

[badluck]

I beveled the top and bottom of the valleys when I framed my house. That’s just how I roll

 

[badluck]

18deg backcut 90deg off of 4 on 12 common plumb cut is what I did. I don’t need to do the bevel but I would like to know how to get the dimension on the sleeper. Found it online but I did not find out how

 

[badluck]

18deg backcut 90deg off of 4 on 12 common plumb cut is what I did. I don’t need to do the bevel but I would like to know how to get the dimension on the sleeper. Found it online but I did not find out how

Here is the project

 

[badluck]

View attachment 612347
Here is the project

 

[braindead]

If you're asking for the degree to cut the sleeper to follow the same line as the rafter, I think it would be the same degree as the backcut. But good luck getting that done on a skil or table saw very easily

 

[badluck]

Here is a shed I did a few years ago

 

[badluck]

Came out ok

 

[28Eliminator]

Prettiest California I’ve seen in a long time. nice!!

You should put collar ties on the longer ones.

 

[badluck]

Thanks. Not bad considering I’m not a carpenter. Collar ties did not even cross my mind. I did stagger braces off the trusses below. Making it all align and plane was a challenge as the new addition in square within1/4” in 40’ but the existing was out 1-1/2 in 40’. We moved the existing back wall 3/4” to help square it up. The original house is way out of square. Bottom floor was close but by floor 3 it was terrible.

 

[Mandelon]

Hell yeah, that's some nice work. Where is this? Around here it'd be covered in Simpson hardware... A-35's everywhere!

 

[badluck]

Copperopolis CA

 

[badluck]

Drawings excavation foundation and some framing. Had help with shotcrete

 

[wsuwrhr]

My father in law could frame like no other. I miss him.

The man wielded a saw like it was part of him.

Thanks for the thread.

 

[Riverbound]

My father in law could frame like no other. I miss him.

The man wielded a saw like it was part of him.

Thanks for the thread.

My father was like that. He was a true tradesman back when framing was still a trade. To watch him work was amazing. Haven’t talked to him in quite a few years now. Unfortunately he never evolved with the times and was still swinging a hammer. Into his 60s.


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[DirtyWhiteDog]

Came out nice. Carpentry is a lost art. For your sleeper length, it's the same as any hip / valley. The end cuts just change to match conditions. You can download a construction calculator, most are hard to learn if you haven't done the actual math before. It's worth paying for the " construction master" if new to framing. Built many of roofs and stairs with their products.

 

[DC-88]

My father was like that. He was a true tradesman back when framing was still a trade. To watch him work was amazing. Haven’t talked to him in quite a few years now. Unfortunately he never evolved with the times and was still swinging a hammer. Into his 60s.


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It still is (a trade). That's how all type 5 shit gets built, only with 10 x more hardware and 10 x more paperwork than back in the day. Hat's off to you pops for kicking ass and being productive up till retirement ---

 

[braindead]

View attachment 613571 View attachment 613572 View attachment 613573 Came out ok

How'd you get away with 24" OC rafters, u using ply clips?

 

[500bbc]

Nice work!
Don't need collar ties on a California though, the jacks can't "spread" in a valley.
The sheathing on the existing roof acts as the crosstie.

 

[500bbc]

Just a general note of interest. Some plan checkers have been making us "fly" the ridge and valleys with beam work to keep any additional load off of the existing structure. We've had to set a ridge beam which cantilevers back over the existing roof, hang valley beams from ridge to plate line and then cantilever the jacks over the valley beams to 1" off the existing sheathing so that when the califorinia is sheathed the only attachment is that 1" of plywood to existing roof. There is no sleeper for the jacks to sit on.

 

[badluck]

How'd you get away with 24" OC rafters, u using ply clips?

No plywood clips. Used 5/8 plywood

 

[wsuwrhr]

I love these threads, I wanted to be a carpenter/frame/build houses. My father convinced me I would always be traveling for work and winter months are tough on construction. I went into machining instead.

 

[28Eliminator]

Nice work!
Don't need collar ties on a California though, the jacks can't "spread" in a valley.
The sheathing on the existing roof acts as the crosstie.

I'm sure your correct in an area that has no Snow loads. But they do have to have a mechanical connection between the jack and the sleeper (A35's). Where I came from, roofs are all calced for 100# snow load (dead load), and they made us put collar ties on every other set of jacks.

 

[500bbc]

I'm sure your correct in an area that has no Snow loads. But they do have to have a mechanical connection between the jack and the sleeper (A35's). Where I came from, roofs are all calced for 100# snow load (dead load), and they made us put collar ties on every other set of jacks.

Not surprised in the least, I was speaking from an old wood butchers perspective before the Simpson catalog became the Bible.

 

[28Eliminator]

Not surprised in the least, I was speaking from an old wood butchers perspective before the Simpson catalog became the Bible.

Lol.. right there with you! Swung a rigging axe framing hammer for years [emoji23][emoji23].

When I had my framing company (early 80’s - late 90’s), there was no such thing as a Strong wall [emoji16]. Simpson only made Teco clips and hangers [emoji16]


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[DC-88]

Lol.. right there with you! Swung a rigging axe framing hammer for years [emoji23][emoji23].

When I had my framing company (early 80’s - late 90’s), there was no such thing as a Strong wall [emoji16]. Simpson only made Teco clips and hangers [emoji16]


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Remember "silver" that came out around the same time and made straps and little hd2 sized hd's back in the day? . I always wondered if simpson bought them or just buried them..

 

[500bbc]

Lol.. right there with you! Swung a rigging axe framing hammer for years [emoji23][emoji23].

When I had my framing company (early 80’s - late 90’s), there was no such thing as a Strong wall [emoji16]. Simpson only made Teco clips and hangers [emoji16]


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I remember the first time I saw a hold down on a job in the 70's, we laughed our asses off.
Since you used a rigging ax do you know how the California Framer was invented?

 

[28Eliminator]

Remember "silver" that came out around the same time and made straps and little hd2 sized hd's back in the day? . I always wondered if simpson bought them or just buried them..

I dont recall them, but i do remember Harlen or Harlan... or something like that??. Don't know if they're even still around. everything I see spec'd is Simpson nowdays. Guess I'm old LOL.

I remember the first time I saw a hold down on a job in the 70's, we laughed our asses off.
Since you used a rigging ax do you know how the California Framer was invented?

I don't.. Do tell..

But I do remember however, that rigging axe was great for sticking walls. Not so great for roof framing or nailing off siding. I thought I was tough swinging a 32oz'r when i was young. Had carpenters elbow by 35... Lol.

 

[500bbc]

I dont recall them, but i do remember Harlen or Harlan... or something like that??. Don't know if they're even still around. everything I see spec'd is Simpson nowdays. Guess I'm old LOL.



I don't.. Do tell..

But I do remember however, that rigging axe was great for sticking walls. Not so great for roof framing or nailing off siding. I thought I was tough swinging a 32oz'r when i was young. Had carpenters elbow by 35... Lol.

Rigging ax has a big face so we cut the face off of Vaughn's and welded RA faces on them.
Late 70's someone caught on and started mass producing them.

Those plastic keel/pencil holders? Piece of garden hose.