Renting a Hangar

[hallett21]

Question for the pilots or anyone else who's done this. I am shopping storage right now to move my construction equipment to a more usable location. Mainly knack boxes, spider boxes, flat bed trailer and some miscellaneous power tools.

Was looking at hangar space in Van Nuys and it looks like I can get a place for roughly 68 cents a foot. The price per square ft is nice but the air port space is also the right size (roughly 35x35). Ive been looking around at warehouse space and it seems that at 68 cents a ft you need to rent 2,000ft plus. And I just don't need that much.

So my question is are you allowed to store stuff like this at the airport? When I'm inquiring will they just hang up if I say construction equipment? I know a lot of people store boats and cars rather than planes. Also all of the equipment coming over is clean and wouldn't be trashing up the joint.

Thanks!

 

[DaveH]

Question for the pilots or anyone else who's done this. I am shopping storage right now to move my construction equipment to a more usable location. Mainly knack boxes, spider boxes, flat bed trailer and some miscellaneous power tools.

Was looking at hangar space in Van Nuys and it looks like I can get a place for roughly 68 cents a foot. The price per square ft is nice but the air port space is also the right size (roughly 35x35). Ive been looking around at warehouse space and it seems that at 68 cents a ft you need to rent 2,000ft plus. And I just don't need that much.

So my question is are you allowed to store stuff like this at the airport? When I'm inquiring will they just hang up if I say construction equipment? I know a lot of people store boats and cars rather than planes. Also all of the equipment coming over is clean and wouldn't be trashing up the joint.

Thanks!

most if not all airports require hangers to be used for aviation purposes. people get around storing boats and stuff by keeping a registered aircraft there as well.

you may get away with it at an airport that is grossly unoccupied but as soon as it starts filling up you will most likely have issues.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

So my question is are you allowed to store stuff like this at the airport? When I'm inquiring will they just hang up if I say construction equipment? I know a lot of people store boats and cars rather than planes. Also all of the equipment coming over is clean and wouldn't be trashing up the joint.

Thanks!

Unless it is an aircraft or aviation related, probably not.

This has been a hot topic lately. The reason the rent is so "cheap", the airport subsidies the land the hangar is sitting on. While you can build a hangar using your money, the land still belongs to the airport (private land ownership is almost unheard of on public airports, and through-the-fence arrangements are very rare).

The airport's grant assurances from the FAA hinge on proper use of the facilities and it has to be aviation related somehow.

 

[hallett21]

Unless it is an aircraft or aviation related, probably not.

This has been a hot topic lately. The reason the rent is so "cheap", the airport subsidies the land the hangar is sitting on. While you can build a hangar using your money, the land still belongs to the airport (private land ownership is almost unheard of on public airports, and through-the-fence arrangements are very rare).

The airport's grant assurances from the FAA hinge on proper use of the facilities and it has to be aviation related somehow.

So if I moonlight as a plane detailer I'm aviation approved? lol

 

[boatdoc55]

I've got very good buddy that has rented one for years. I know it's not real close to his home in Santa Clarita but it's not far either. I have been to it but can't remember which airport it is. He has nothing to do with planes, just show cars and what I always kid him about, junk. Last I saw his enclosed car hauler was in it and a couple of his El Caminos. I can call him if you want more info.

 

[coolchange]

Probably Santa Paula. They don't get Fed money that's why all the random shit is in there. I have a friend with a plane there and a living space. I'd move into his hanger in a heart beat. Van Nuys is the largest civil airport in the world, not going to get away with much there.

 

[spectras only]

Friend of mine owns a dozen or so hangars at a local airport. Pretty much all of his renters have cars boats etc but have airplanes as well. Try finding someone who doesn't have anything, other than a plane in the hangar and willing to share space for some cash. One of his renters has an entire machine shop setup with his Glasair he built parked in there.

 

[72Hondo]

Find someone at Van Nuys that has some space in a T hangar and rent directly from him. Van Nuys is governed by LAWA (Los Angeles World Airports) and Van Nuys is prime Realestate. You'd be surprised what type of airplanes are buried in those hangars.

 

[PVHCA]

I know that some airports that are federally funded are not allowed to rent hangars to non aircraft owners per FAA.

Hangars are cheap storage.

 

[530RL]

Generally speaking;

If the building is on fee simple land, yet has "through the fence" access, one can put anything they want in it as long as it conforms with local zoning and/or specific CC&R's relating to that development.

If the building is on government owned land, (state, county, city) that is part of the defined airport area, there are federal restrictions that as Sleek says, it must be aviation related. Some areas enforce this more heavily, some less heavily but the trend is towards more strict enforcement.

The waiting list for some airports in the metropolitan phoenix area are years long and as such, the airport authorities have been checking to make sure there are aircraft in them as otherwise, they want the tenants out so that aviation assets that pay fuel tax and use the airport can use them.

 

[mesquito_creek]

Generally speaking;

If the building is on fee simple land, yet has "through the fence" access, one can put anything they want in it as long as it conforms with local zoning and/or specific CC&R's relating to that development.

If the building is on government owned land, (state, county, city) that is part of the defined airport area, there are federal restrictions that as Sleek says, it must be aviation related. Some areas enforce this more heavily, some less heavily but the trend is towards more strict enforcement.

The waiting list for some airports in the metropolitan phoenix area are years long and as such, the airport authorities have been checking to make sure there are aircraft in them as otherwise, they want the tenants out so that aviation assets that pay fuel tax and use the airport can use them.

14 new lots available at Stellar Estates II.... problem solved! Best of both worlds, house and hanger all in one!

 

[max930]

It depends on who is renting the hangar and the class of airport. I think it depends if their is commercial flights there or not. Here and a few small GA airports most you can walk around the ramp look at the parked planes, etc. Nobody bothers you. Do it at an airport with some commercial traffic. Unless you have a pilots license and reason to be there, you are in trouble. Second if an airport is renting their hangars. Some have a waiting list. If they rented to non aviation it would annoy pilots. Last if you own the hangar, you can do whatever you want with it.

 

[530RL]

14 new lots available at Stellar Estates II.... problem solved! Best of both worlds, house and hanger all in one!

It used to be that personal fuel tanks were not allowed at Stellar which is why Pratte has trucks. Wonder if that is the case with Stellar Estates II? How much are the lots?

 

[hallett21]

It depends on who is renting the hangar and the class of airport. I think it depends if their is commercial flights there or not. Here and a few small GA airports most you can walk around the ramp look at the parked planes, etc. Nobody bothers you. Do it at an airport with some commercial traffic. Unless you have a pilots license and reason to be there, you are in trouble. Second if an airport is renting their hangars. Some have a waiting list. If they rented to non aviation it would annoy pilots. Last if you own the hangar, you can do whatever you want with it.

But I am l leasing the land if I own the building?

 

[530RL]

But I am l leasing the land if I own the building?

You will find hangars both on fee simple land and on leased land. If on fee simple (you own it) land, you are subject to the governmental zoning restrictions and any other restrictions that came with the land such as CC&R's. You can also find hangars on leased land in which case the underlying land lease requires a lease payment for the land as well as you and the building you built on it are subject to governmental zoning restrictions, any CC&R's and any terms contained in the ground lease.


For example at Falcon Field there are some hangars that you can buy, but they are on a ground lease with the airport authority and as such are subject to the terms of those ground leases.

Bottom line, be careful about signing a lease to store your construction equipment without fully checking out the underlying rules, not just what they are enforcing but what they can enforce. The last thing you want is a 5 year lease where 3 years into it the airport authority states this is for aviation assets and you now have to make a rent payment and remove your stuff.

Grab a beer and have a poke around this article. It is not perfectly clear but it explains the issues.

http://hangarsphere.com/hangar-owners-vs-faa-aeronautical-nonaeronautical/

 

[Racey]

Guys up here in Boulder City used to use hangars for boat and car storage big time, till as everyone has pointed out, the feds came in started shutting all that down. Now they are super strict, and BC is a very small airport, no tower, not controlled airspace.

BC is leased land as 530RL points out.

 

[mesquito_creek]

It used to be that personal fuel tanks were not allowed at Chandler which is why Pratte has trucks. Wonder if that is the case with Stellar Estates II? How much are the lots?

In any event, I used to keep my helicopter at Chandler. You know how far of a drive that is from PV? :eek

I don't know about the SRUA rules are on personal fuel tanks, but unless its a grade/quality issue with what they stock at the FBO, I know that they "pool" fuel orders for the year and get a pretty good discount on fuel cost. I wonder if you could really beat the pricing against the SRUA bulk pricing?

Regarding the availability and pricing on SE II... all I can say is that you know how gossip, bs and out of control speculation is around a FBO. There have been so many twists and turns with SE II over the years and not a single house is built yet. BUT recently the big orange city PD Zoning sign was up and I think that means that the official sub division is properly permitted with the city. So I bet lot/housing prices are finally up in value to the point where Pratte is ready to break ground and start building.

If you want to lease a hanger/tie down for your helo at Stellar, I will gladly shuttle it to your front door on a moments notice! LOL .. you just have to teach me how to fly it! I am on lot 19 off the runway in the old part of stellar where the poor people live without taxiways..

Oh, and Bob G at the FBO has always toyed around with the idea of building hangers for sale in the condominium model.. I think he's up to that deal again suggesting there are hangers for sale....

 

[530RL]

I don't know about the SRUA rules are on personal fuel tanks, but unless its a grade/quality issue with what they stock at the FBO, I know that they "pool" fuel orders for the year and get a pretty good discount on fuel cost. I wonder if you could really beat the pricing against the SRUA bulk pricing?

Regarding the availability and pricing on SE II... all I can say is that you know how gossip, bs and out of control speculation is around a FBO. There have been so many twists and turns with SE II over the years and not a single house is built yet. BUT recently the big orange city PD Zoning sign was up and I think that means that the official sub division is properly permitted with the city. So I bet lot/housing prices are finally up in value to the point where Pratte is ready to break ground and start building.

If you want to lease a hanger/tie down for your helo at Stellar, I will gladly shuttle it to your front door on a moments notice! LOL .. you just have to teach me how to fly it! I am on lot 19 off the runway in the old part of stellar where the poor people live without taxiways..

Oh, and Bob G at the FBO has always toyed around with the idea of building hangers for sale in the condominium model.. I think he's up to that deal again suggesting there are hangers for sale....

I was wondering if Pratte owned that land too. He seems to own a lot of it out there. I suspect you know Scott Urschel, I'll chat with Scott and get the scoop.

Thanks for the info. :thumbsup:thumbsup

 

[Rvrluvr]

Hangars are awesome 

 

[mesquito_creek]

I was wondering if Pratte owned that land too. He seems to own a lot of it out there. I suspect you know Scott Urschel, I'll chat with Scott and get the scoop.

Thanks for the info. :thumbsup:thumbsup

I found this online, you can own your own hanger / land for 180K.... https://www.barnstormers.com/classified_files/1/1/2/0/5/2/6/1120526-1Hangar_Flyer.pdf

 

[pronstar]

LA Motorsports, a group of stunt/precision drivers, posts-up at Camarillo airport. Their equipment is stored in a hangar.
Their test track is there, too, right on the end of an active (albeit not busy) runway.

So I think it depends on a number of factors, including the airport itself, as many have noted above.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

It depends on who is renting the hangar and the class of airport. I think it depends if their is commercial flights there or not. Here and a few small GA airports most you can walk around the ramp look at the parked planes, etc. Nobody bothers you. Do it at an airport with some commercial traffic. Unless you have a pilots license and reason to be there, you are in trouble. Second if an airport is renting their hangars. Some have a waiting list. If they rented to non aviation it would annoy pilots. Last if you own the hangar, you can do whatever you want with it.

It has everything to do with AIP grant money and zero to do with how big the airport is.

 

[Bobby V]

A general contractor I do work for has his office and shop in a hangar at a airport in Torrance.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

If you really want to know beyond generalities get the airport's minimum standards document and a copy of a lease agreements. It'll all be spelled out there. Both are public documents.

 

[72Hondo]

Put a couple 4 wheelers in there and call them tugs, GSE repair.

Feds are strict but there's tons of loop holes and gray areas.

 

[hallett21]

Put a couple 4 wheelers in there and call them tugs, GSE repair.

Feds are strict but there's tons of loop holes and gray areas.

And a phantom drone? Those are required to be FAA registered right?

 

[wishiknew]

Question for the pilots or anyone else who's done this. I am shopping storage right now to move my construction equipment to a more usable location. Mainly knack boxes, spider boxes, flat bed trailer and some miscellaneous power tools.

Was looking at hangar space in Van Nuys and it looks like I can get a place for roughly 68 cents a foot. The price per square ft is nice but the air port space is also the right size (roughly 35x35). Ive been looking around at warehouse space and it seems that at 68 cents a ft you need to rent 2,000ft plus. And I just don't need that much.

So my question is are you allowed to store stuff like this at the airport? When I'm inquiring will they just hang up if I say construction equipment? I know a lot of people store boats and cars rather than planes. Also all of the equipment coming over is clean and wouldn't be trashing up the joint.

Thanks!

Start looking at a shop to buy! This is one of the mistakes I made in Business. I rented 2 storages for 20 years before I realized That building could be part of your retirement plan. I spent enough money on rent to have owned the building !

 

[Dkahnjob]

Hi Hallett 21,
It sounds like you are talking about the Prop Park at Van Nuys on the West side of the airport where the old AirGuard base used to be. I have a Hangar there, I own the building (I have owned it since 1993), and rent the land. The Land is owned by LAWA (Los Angeles World Airports), and the Park is developed by Pacific Aviation Developement (PAD). There are very tight rules, the only way you could have your building on the property is if you own and airplane and had a hangar on other Van Nuys airport property before the park was developed. There is no new space for any new buildings that aren't owned by PAD. You must have an airplane to rent a hangar, and all hangars are to be for aircraft storage only. They are a little loose on that, so if you have a boat or car in the hangar with your plane they tend to look the other way. There is one guy in a hangar on the property that has only cars and a trailer, not sure how he is getting away with that or how long it will last.
I hope this helps clarify things for you.

 

[Rotten deal]

Buy an ultra light and hang it from the ceiling.

 

[NicPaus]

A general contractor I do work for has his office and shop in a hangar at a airport in Torrance.

Friend has a spot there and several others. He never bought a old plane like planned and has to move out. Said most buy a cheap beater and hang it from the ceiling out of the way. Lasted a few years just long enough for him to accumalate a bunch of stuff he needs to find storage for. A local shop is $2 a sq ft.

 

[Racer56]

I rent a hangar at a local airport in LA and have nothing but race car's and classic cars in it. All you need is a valid aircraft tail number to give them to sign the lease and you are good to go. Going on 7 years and I have never had an issue!

 

[72Hondo]

Also might want to try whiteman in Pacomia.

 

[rrrr]

I know that some airports that are federally funded are not allowed to rent hangars to non aircraft owners per FAA.

Hangars are cheap storage.

The FAA just issued a clarification about hangar use at airports which accept federal grant monies. This has been viewed as the beginning of stricter scrutinization of who is doing what in hangars.

If you are using a hangar and there are no aviation related items in it you can be evicted and fined. Not only that, you are taking space away from legitimate users who are sometimes on waiting lists for years to get a hangar.

It's a dick move IMO to flaunt the rules to the detriment of the people that don't have a place to put their airplanes.

Don't be that guy.

 

[72Hondo]

The FAA just issued a clarification about hangar use at airports which accept federal grant monies. This has been viewed as the beginning of stricter scrutinization of who is doing what in hangars.

If you are using a hangar and there are no aviation related items in it you can be evicted and fined. Not only that, you are taking space away from legitimate users who are sometimes on waiting lists for years to get a hangar.

It's a dick move IMO to flaunt the rules to the detriment of the people that don't have a place to put their airplanes.

Don't be that guy.

So you're saying those who store there construction eqt or just flat out junk in boat storage facilities are "that guy"?

The Feds are always hunting for something.

Out of curiosity, what airports have waiting lists, VNY, SMO and the like? I'm sorry but those airports are prime Realestate. I've watched Van Nuys out grow it self in the 90's and it's where the big boys play, I.E. Disney, WB, & multiple actors. But Whitman right down, the street can't give away their hangars..

 

[rrrr]

So you're saying those who store there construction eqt or just flat out junk in boat storage facilities are "that guy"?

The Feds are always hunting for something.

Out of curiosity, what airports have waiting lists, VNY, SMO and the like? I'm sorry but those airports are prime Realestate. I've watched Van Nuys out grow it self in the 90's and it's where the big boys play, I.E. Disney, WB, & multiple actors. But Whitman right down, the street can't give away their hangars..

I didn't say anything about boat storage facilities, did I? Boat storage facilities don't have anything to do with hangars at airports which receive federal grants for maintenance and improvements.

Hangars at private airports which don't receive federal monies are not subject to the federal laws that govern use at airports that do receive money. Many of those private airports are run down mom and pop operations that will rent out hangar space to anyone that asks, and it's their prerogative to do so.

I don't live in California, so I can't comment on any airports there. But it's a fact that many people abuse the laws regarding the usage of hangars, and I do know that some airports in the San Francisco area have people that have been waiting lists for literally years. People who illegally use hangars to store non-aviation materials and equipment should rightfully be evicted. The feds don't "hunt" for abusers. They are very liberal in their interpretation of what constitutes aviation use. Some people have started work on an experimental aircraft and left a few parts scattered around the hangar while they use the space to store anything from boats to furniture to construction equipment. But as long as there is some discernible aviation activity going on the law is satisfied.

Let's turn this around. Suppose you had a boat worth several hundred grand and were forced to store it outdoors for years because the only storage spaces available were filled with people running cheapshit kitchen remodeling businesses without licenses or compliance with OSHA and other regulations? Then you wouldn't mind government stepping in to boot their asses out on the street, would you?

 

[72Hondo]

I didn't say anything about boat storage facilities, did I? Boat storage facilities don't have anything to do with hangars at airports which receive federal grants for maintenance and improvements.

Hangars at private airports which don't receive federal monies are not subject to the federal laws that govern use at airports that do receive money. Many of those private airports are run down mom and pop operations that will rent out hangar space to anyone that asks, and it's their prerogative to do so.

I don't live in California, so I can't comment on any airports there. But it's a fact that many people abuse the laws regarding the usage of hangars, and I do know that some airports in the San Francisco area have people that have been waiting lists for literally years. People who illegally use hangars to store non-aviation materials and equipment should rightfully be evicted. The feds don't "hunt" for abusers. They are very liberal in their interpretation of what constitutes aviation use. Some people have started work on an experimental aircraft and left a few parts scattered around the hangar while they use the space to store anything from boats to furniture to construction equipment. But as long as there is some discernible aviation activity going on the law is satisfied.

Let's turn this around. Suppose you had a boat worth several hundred grand and were forced to store it outdoors for years because the only storage spaces available were filled with people running cheapshit kitchen remodeling businesses without licenses or compliance with OSHA and other regulations? Then you wouldn't mind government stepping in to boot their asses out on the street, would you?

You missed the point about the Feds. I'm tired of the "we're here to help" BS. They fill quotas that's all they do.

I'm not saying don't enforce rules, just don't enforce them when it suites you. The VNY FSDO is full of people like that. I also know some who really don't care as there's bigger issues than who's putting what in where.

I've never seen the Gulfstream or global guys hurting for hangars. If I owned an aircraft and didn't want it sitting outside, I'd make sure I found a hangar. It may not be exactly where I want it but it would be hangered.

SFO is a whole different ball of wax. Isn't SFO class B anyway? Can't see very much GA traffic in SFO.

 

[530RL]

You missed the point about the Feds. I'm tired of the "we're here to help" BS. They fill quotas that's all they do.

I'm not saying don't enforce rules, just don't enforce them when it suites you. The VNY FSDO is full of people like that. I also know some who really don't care as there's bigger issues than who's putting what in where.

I've never seen the Gulfstream or global guys hurting for hangars. If I owned an aircraft and didn't want it sitting outside, I'd make sure I found a hangar. It may not be exactly where I want it but it would be hangered.

SFO is a whole different ball of wax. Isn't SFO class B anyway? Can't see very much GA traffic in SFO.

I have been on a waiting list for 9 years to keep an aircraft at a class B airport. Just some facts for the discussion.

 

[72Hondo]

I have been on a waiting list for 9 years to keep an aircraft at a class B airport. Just some facts for the discussion.

What airport? Pm me if you like.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

You missed the point about the Feds. I'm tired of the "we're here to help" BS. They fill quotas that's all they do.

I'm not saying don't enforce rules, just don't enforce them when it suites you. The VNY FSDO is full of people like that. I also know some who really don't care as there's bigger issues than who's putting what in where.

I've never seen the Gulfstream or global guys hurting for hangars. If I owned an aircraft and didn't want it sitting outside, I'd make sure I found a hangar. It may not be exactly where I want it but it would be hangered.

SFO is a whole different ball of wax. Isn't SFO class B anyway? Can't see very much GA traffic in SFO.

It isn't the Feds's per-se. It's the airport and the Feds threatening their grant money. I doubt anyone from the FAA is going out and unlocking hangars.

I'd be pissed if I couldn't hangar my airplane at the airport I wanted because someone with to many cars liked the cheap storage.

 

[boatdoc55]

I've got very good buddy that has rented one for years. I know it's not real close to his home in Santa Clarita but it's not far either. I have been to it but can't remember which airport it is. He has nothing to do with planes, just show cars and what I always kid him about, junk. Last I saw his enclosed car hauler was in it and a couple of his El Caminos. I can call him if you want more info.

Found out the name of said airport Whiteman Public

 

[72Hondo]

Looks like the ruling has changed. Effective July 1st 2017.

 

[jpf091959]

In 2006, I contact the local port authority about storage for my boat. I was very honest and upfront that I am looking for storage for my boat, I don't have a plane. They referred me to two hanger associations at our local non*commuter airport. I found a hanger and made a cash offer and purchased it. So everything has been working out great, every year the hanger is inspected and the Port Authority always checks it out and says okay. Well about a year ago a guy leased a hanger and moved this mr fix business into the a hanger. I think he lives there several nights a week, spreads his crap all over the tarmac and is ruining it for me.

My only hope is I own the hanger, not the property, he is leasing so I suspect he will be asked to leave.

I am always very respectful and have made friends with all the pilots around me. owning a hanger to store my boat has worked out great for me, but I suspect I might not get another ten years of use out of it.

I think I will start building a kit plane, to try and show some intent to follow the rules.

 

[Warlock1]

I was going to suggest picking up an airplane frame or a helicopter frame and put in there. I've seen these go for way less than a 1000 dollars at auctions.

 

[hallett21]

Thanks everyone for the replies. To be clear I am not running some rag tag construction business. Tools are clean and inside gang boxes however I never new the hangars were subsidized by the FEDs.

My goal has always been to be able to have my own storage unit complex or even a small (5-10unit) warehouse/office complex. However in So Cal we are talking big bucks with land and construction.