resurrecting a red top optima

[Outnumbered]

Jeep I just bought came with a new redtop with a 5/11 date sticker. Problem is seller let it sit and die. Was 5.4 volts when I brought it home. After charging it up to 12.4 it will not go past. Battery tender will not go to green light status, just stays in red charge mode. Even my POS Walmart five year old ever start will go to green after one night on the tender. Can I save this or is it junk?

 

[Nord]

Straight from optima's site.

http://www.optimabatteries.com/product_support/resuscitating_agmbattery.php

 

[Outnumbered]

Straight from optima's site.

http://www.optimabatteries.com/product_support/resuscitating_agmbattery.php

Thanks. I actually already got past that point. One charger I had "faulted" or clicked off and would not charge so I broke out an old school charger and got it from 5.4V to 12.4V, then switched to the newer charger, then to the tender. Battery does not get hot or hiss, just warm. My battery tender is getting pretty hot though but is not throwing a fault warning LED. The only thing I have not tried is some kind of higher amp AGM specialty charger. I hate to spend the money and still not be able to save it. Anyone have any success with the AGM specialty chargers?

 

[Baja Big Dog]

Good luck....between NASCAR and the off road car, we get them free..thank God, havent had very good luck at all with these, and yes, WalMart is the place...

 

[sdpm]

Take it to an authorized Optima Warranty Center or Interstate Distributor. You might get a brand new one. I wouldn't tell them it came in a car you bought. You just happen to misplace the receipt or got it as a gift if you get my drift.

 

[Outnumbered]

Take it to an authorized Optima Warranty Center or Interstate Distributor. You might get a brand new one. I wouldn't tell them it came in a car you bought. You just happen to misplace the receipt or got it as a gift if you get my drift.

Thought about it since it is so new, thanks:thumbsup

 

[76 Hondo]

This is the charger a couple of years ago, brings the 2 big batteries on the pontoon up from 40%-50% in 20 mins. the blue top in the jet boat is an '04 still going strong.

Schumacher Speed Charger ? 100/30/12/2 Amp, Automatic, Model# SC-10030A

Schumacher Speed Charger ? 100/30/12/2 Amp, Automatic, Model# SC-10030A
4.5 / 5

Item# 167822

Only $99.99

This Schumacher handheld automatic charger for 12V batteries uses efficient SpeedCharge technology to charge 2?3 times faster than traditional chargers.

 

[460]

If you can't bring it to me and I will swap for ya.


Yes it's black.

 

[Outnumbered]

This is the charger a couple of years ago, brings the 2 big batteries on the pontoon up from 40%-50% in 20 mins. the blue top in the jet boat is an '04 still going strong.

Schumacher Speed Charger ? 100/30/12/2 Amp, Automatic, Model# SC-10030A

Schumacher Speed Charger ? 100/30/12/2 Amp, Automatic, Model# SC-10030A
4.5 / 5

Item# 167822

Only $99.99

This Schumacher handheld automatic charger for 12V batteries uses efficient SpeedCharge technology to charge 2?3 times faster than traditional chargers.

I'm not having problems charging. I have a blue top in the boat and had 4 blue tops in my cobalt. never any problems bringing the deep cycles back to full charge. This red top was deeply discharged and appears to have incurred some damage. I'm just wondering if there is a technique to reverse the damage via charging cycles or a special AGM charger that can repair the problem? Thanks

 

[Outnumbered]

If you can't bring it to me and I will swap for ya.


Yes it's black.

Well hell, how can I pass up that deal:thumbsup I get to the meet the infamous Tyro and get a new battery. I'll bring some beer. What kinda beer do you drink? Old English, King Cobra or ?

 

[callbob]

Brothers in Phoenix can be partial to Steel Reserve

 

[screaming pete]

Well hell, how can I pass up that deal:thumbsup I get to the meet the infamous Tyro and get a new battery. I'll bring

1. KFC

and some beer. What kinda beer do you drink? Old English, King Cobra or ?

fixed it for ya:thumbsup

 

[460]

Well hell, how can I pass up that deal:thumbsup I get to the meet the infamous Tyro and get a new battery. I'll bring some beer. What kinda beer do you drink? Old English, King Cobra or ?

Let me know when your coming down.


Yes it's black.

 

[Outnumbered]

Let me know when your coming down.


Yes it's black.

Will do, seriously though. I'll bring ya some beer or buy you lunch. :thumbsup

 

[RitcheyRch]

Nice fix.

fixed it for ya:thumbsup

 

[TPC]

We've started using the blue top light grey body marine Optimas for all applications.
So far so good.

 

[philofab]

You need to get a charger that has a "desulfate" mode. It hits the battery with a high voltage low amperage hit that can knock the sulfate off the plates. Optima currently does not endorse any specific charger.... but they will be releasing their own charger at Sema next month.

Maybe OptimaJim will pop on here and answer some questions...

I do agree with the post above about the light grey bottom... those are all deep cycle batteries and are much tougher (and more expensive).

 

[Kleptow]

You should have drained it all they way down to 0 volts and then tricle charge it back up I've done about 10 of them this way only had one that would not come back.

 

[Tom Brown]

I hate to spend the money and still not be able to save it. Anyone have any success with the AGM specialty chargers?

If the battery has been sitting with low voltage for an extended period of time, the odds of any charger bringing it back are fairly low. An anti-sulfating charger will be your best bet, and you might do OK, but I'd try to get a replacement.

As much as I consider Optima to be generally the worst quality garbage of a battery I've encountered, they can be pretty good too. They aren't as strong, nor do they last as long, as they once were but carefully picked samples can be an effective battery with reasonable longevity, clean terminals, etc.

... but seriously, if you can set your ego aside for a few minutes, going to a pick-a-part type of place with a volt meter and bolt cutter will yield 10 good batteries out of 10. Pick batteries that were recently replaced, before the car was totaled. As best I can tell, Optima kicks out 3 good batteries out of 10.

10 junk yard batteries will come in right at $100. My oldest junk yard batteries are 3 years old now and still cranking my old diesel truck over just fine, even when it's 20 below zero.

I don't bother pulling the recovered batteries out of the machinery they're in over winter. The thought is, for 10 bucks I'll just replace them. ... but I've never had one go. I went to my skid steer this spring and it cranked right up after being through the coldest winter on record (and that's fucking cold.... weeks on end at 35~40 below zero).

Sure, you could find an Optima that works pretty well if you sort through enough of them but what the fuck?

 

[GET SOME]

I put a brand new yellow top in the chevelle 2 weeks ago. I left the lights on by mistake. Killed the battery overnight, I pluged it into a AMG battery charger overnite and it still will not get past 6 volts. I think i will try the good battery hooked to the bad battery on the charger.

 

[Tom Brown]

I put a brand new yellow top in the chevelle 2 weeks ago. I left the lights on by mistake. Killed the battery overnight, I pluged it into a AMG battery charger overnite and it still will not get past 6 volts. I think i will try the good battery hooked to the bad battery on the charger.

I've slammed Optima pretty hard but, in this case, that is the most nasty thing you could possibly do to a battery.

The problem is that some cells will go dead before others and the still viable cells will force the dead cells to flow current in reverse. That's deadly for a battery.

In this case, find your receipt, go back to the store, and complain bitterly about the second rate dog shit they import from Mexico. Tell them it was dead when you got it and won't leave until they give you a new one. Don't forget to cry out, "Let's put America back to work!" on your way out of the store.

 

[Kleptow]

Jeep I just bought came with a new redtop with a 5/11 date sticker. Problem is seller let it sit and die. Was 5.4 volts when I brought it home. After charging it up to 12.4 it will not go past. Battery tender will not go to green light status, just stays in red charge mode. Even my POS Walmart five year old ever start will go to green after one night on the tender. Can I save this or is it junk?

Are these voltage reading under load if not they don't mean much you need to check the battery with a battery load tester

 

[philofab]

You should have drained it all they way down to 0 volts and then tricle charge it back up I've done about 10 of them this way only had one that would not come back.

Discharging a battery is not a good thing for AGM batteries. Good for NiCD and NiMH but just about nothing else.

 

[Outnumbered]

Are these voltage reading under load if not they don't mean much you need to check the battery with a battery load tester

No load, just a basic DVM.
.
.
.
.
Thanks for the replies guys, I'll be making a trip to see 460 and I'll be toting some malt liquor... it's all good now:thumbsup

 

[Kleptow]

Discharging a battery is not a good thing for AGM batteries. Good for NiCD and NiMH but just about nothing else.

Are you speaking from experience or is that something some one told you?

because I have tested what I said and I have 2 out of 10 Optima batteries that I recovered from the recycle bin with same production dates to prov it, one was drained all the way down and trickled back up the other was charged from it's found state of about 4 volts the battery that was drained down came back with more load cranking amps than the one that I didn't drain and it was in worse shape at 3 volts. Is recovery these batteries a pain not for me I've never bought a optima so I wouldn't know, But I had 10 before I gave some away.

 

[philofab]

Are you speaking from experience or is that something some one told you?

I am speaking from experience and from the knowledge I have of how batteries work. When a battery gets below a certain voltage (exact voltage depends on the type of cell) sulfate starts to form on the plates and impedes the chemical process that creates and stores electricity. The longer a battery sits discharged, the more sulfate forms.

If the battery came back after you drained it, it would have come back faster and better with just a trickle charger. You can't compare two batteries unless they were both subjected to the exact same time discharged at the same voltage.

 

[OCMerrill]

If you can't bring it to me and I will swap for ya.


Yes it's black.

What if your Optima is a White Top?






I need some new material. :grumble:

 

[philofab]

What if your Optima is a White Top?

You leave yours in the sun too?


Sent from my home using an Atari.

 

[Kleptow]

I am speaking from experience and from the knowledge I have of how batteries work. When a battery gets below a certain voltage (exact voltage depends on the type of cell) sulfate starts to form on the plates and impedes the chemical process that creates and stores electricity. The longer a battery sits discharged, the more sulfate forms.

I thought we were talking about AGM batteries? because as you should know, agm & gel cell batteries by design are not as susceptible to sulfateing as wet cells.


If the battery came back after you drained it, it would have come back faster and better with just a trickle charger. You can't compare two batteries unless they were both subjected to the exact same time discharged at the same voltage.

My real world end user experience tells me you will have a hard time providing any documentation to back up your claim above, and if I wanted to lose my job I could show plenty of factual data to support what I've said, here is just one of many available out on the net.. (http://fuelzilla.com/solar/What-does-completely-draining-a-battery-do-to-battery-life-24161-.htm)

But more importantly I was trying to help a boater save some money by telling him what has actually worked for me as it related to saving dead Optima batteries.



If you want to continue this please provide some actual data to support draining an AGM all the way down harms it in any way.

 

[philofab]

My real world end user experience tells me you will have a hard time providing any documentation to back up your claim above, and if I wanted to lose my job I could show plenty of factual data to support what I've said, here is just one of many available out on the net.. (http://fuelzilla.com/solar/What-does-completely-draining-a-battery-do-to-battery-life-24161-.htm)

But more importantly I was trying to help a boater save some money by telling him what has actually worked for me as it related to saving dead Optima batteries.



If you want to continue this please provide some actual data to support draining an AGM all the way down harms it in any way.

The Optima in question in this thread is getting warrantied. Should not cost the owner anything. Although sulfation is resisted by the construction of AGM batteries it DOES still happen when discharged. Below threads reference it.


http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/showthread.php/95876-Optima-batteries?p=1325062&viewfull=1#post1325062

In the thread above OptimaJim (An Optima employee) mentions sulfation.


http://www.optimabatteries.com/product_support/charging_agmbattery.php

Optimas website mentions sulfation on the page above.


http://www.garageforklift.com/charged.php

Another website mentioning AGM and sulfation.

 

[Kleptow]

The Optima in question in this thread is getting warrantied.

So is that a 100% full replacement warranty or the industry standard planned obsolescence pro rated fawkeing you going to give him? "Should not cost the owner anything".

Although sulfation is resisted by the construction of AGM batteries it DOES still happen when discharged. Below threads reference it.

I never said anything about sulfateing you made that comment and still have not provided any factual data to support it, and I don't mean sales propaganda..


http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/showthread.php/95876-Optima-batteries?p=1325062&viewfull=1#post1325062

In the thread above OptimaJim (An Optima employee) mentions sulfation.


http://www.optimabatteries.com/product_support/charging_agmbattery.php

Optimas website mentions sulfation on the page above.


http://www.garageforklift.com/charged.php

Another website mentioning AGM and sulfation.

***

 

[OptimaJim]

Hello, Chris alerted me to your conversation and I was hoping I could offer some assistance. Outnumbered, given the uncertain history of your battery (even in it's relatively-new state), there could be a couple of things to consider. I don't know how long the Jeep sat, but if the battery was discharged down to 5.4 volts, it may be worth looking at the electrical system in the vehicle. Many times, when batteries are discharged to that extent, there is a parasitic draw, possibly from a car alarm or aftermarket stereo system that is discharging the battery. If that is the case, replacing the battery will only mask an existing issue, which could've been the seller's intent, especially given the fact that it was replaced so close to his sale to you.

If this Jeep has a winch, it really needs a battery designed for deep-cycle use. While an appropriately-sized RedTop will offer plenty of cranking amps, it is a starting battery and is not designed for deep-cycle use, including winching. If the seller simply bought the battery and dropped it in the Jeep, it's possible that the battery just needs some use. I asked one of our senior engineers about this, as the charts we use to demonstrate cycle life of our batteries often shows a slight increase in reserve capacity in the first 20 or so cycles.

He gave me two reasons for this, the easier to understand of the two is that subtle changes in the pore structure of the active material allows more acid to penetrate into the material itself. The more complex reason is the conversion of the positive active mass from the alpha-PbO2 crystal structure to the beta-PbO2 crystal structure increasing with cycling. Per Hans Bode, Lead-Acid Batteries, Wiley-Interscience, 1977, the beta-PbO2 structure can be more easily discharged. Hence, you get more discharge capacity as the battery cycles, up to a point, as more of the positive active materials are converted into the beta-PbO2 structure.

Fully-charged, your RedTop should measure about 12.6-12.8 volts. You can charge at a rate up to 10 amps and it is ok if it does get warm during charging, but it should not get hot to the touch. Sometimes charging at this higher rate will help break up some sulfation that may have formed in the battery, if it was left in a discharged state for an extended period of time.

When you indicated the battery appears to have incurred some kind of damage, was there something about the physical appearance of the battery that suggests that happened? GET SOME, if your charger is having trouble recognizing a deeply-discharged battery, this parallel charging technique may allow it to deliver a charge to your discharged battery- 302 Found

I can't speak to the effectiveness of Kleptow's battery recovery technique, but it is not surprising to hear that he was able to recover batteries someone else mistakenly thought were dead. Many of the ?bad? batteries returned to us now under warranty are just deeply-discharged and do work fine, when properly-recharged. While no lead-acid battery likes to be deeply-discharged, as Chris mentioned, the longer they sit in this discharged state, the more sulfation forms inside the battery, diminishing both capacity and lifespan. Many of our sponsored anglers will come off the water with their BlueTops measuring well into the single-digits, but by recharging them right away and keeping them fully-charged whenever possible, they are able to see very long life and good service from them.

Kleptow, the factory warranty on all of our RedTops is three years free replacement with no proration. The reality is, if any battery fails from a manufacturing defect, it is likely to do so well within the first year of use, if not the first month.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

 

[Outnumbered]

Hello, Chris alerted me to your conversation and I was hoping I could offer some assistance. Outnumbered, given the uncertain history of your battery (even in it's relatively-new state), there could be a couple of things to consider. I don't know how long the Jeep sat, but if the battery was discharged down to 5.4 volts, it may be worth looking at the electrical system in the vehicle. Many times, when batteries are discharged to that extent, there is a parasitic draw, possibly from a car alarm or aftermarket stereo system that is discharging the battery. If that is the case, replacing the battery will only mask an existing issue, which could've been the seller's intent, especially given the fact that it was replaced so close to his sale to you.

If this Jeep has a winch, it really needs a battery designed for deep-cycle use. While an appropriately-sized RedTop will offer plenty of cranking amps, it is a starting battery and is not designed for deep-cycle use, including winching. If the seller simply bought the battery and dropped it in the Jeep, it's possible that the battery just needs some use. I asked one of our senior engineers about this, as the charts we use to demonstrate cycle life of our batteries often shows a slight increase in reserve capacity in the first 20 or so cycles.

He gave me two reasons for this, the easier to understand of the two is that subtle changes in the pore structure of the active material allows more acid to penetrate into the material itself. The more complex reason is the conversion of the positive active mass from the alpha-PbO2 crystal structure to the beta-PbO2 crystal structure increasing with cycling. Per Hans Bode, Lead-Acid Batteries, Wiley-Interscience, 1977, the beta-PbO2 structure can be more easily discharged. Hence, you get more discharge capacity as the battery cycles, up to a point, as more of the positive active materials are converted into the beta-PbO2 structure.

Fully-charged, your RedTop should measure about 12.6-12.8 volts. You can charge at a rate up to 10 amps and it is ok if it does get warm during charging, but it should not get hot to the touch. Sometimes charging at this higher rate will help break up some sulfation that may have formed in the battery, if it was left in a discharged state for an extended period of time.

When you indicated the battery appears to have incurred some kind of damage, was there something about the physical appearance of the battery that suggests that happened? GET SOME, if your charger is having trouble recognizing a deeply-discharged battery, this parallel charging technique may allow it to deliver a charge to your discharged battery- 302 Found

I can't speak to the effectiveness of Kleptow's battery recovery technique, but it is not surprising to hear that he was able to recover batteries someone else mistakenly thought were dead. Many of the ?bad? batteries returned to us now under warranty are just deeply-discharged and do work fine, when properly-recharged. While no lead-acid battery likes to be deeply-discharged, as Chris mentioned, the longer they sit in this discharged state, the more sulfation forms inside the battery, diminishing both capacity and lifespan. Many of our sponsored anglers will come off the water with their BlueTops measuring well into the single-digits, but by recharging them right away and keeping them fully-charged whenever possible, they are able to see very long life and good service from them.

Kleptow, the factory warranty on all of our RedTops is three years free replacement with no proration. The reality is, if any battery fails from a manufacturing defect, it is likely to do so well within the first year of use, if not the first month.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

Thanks for the detailed info. To answer your questions:

Yes, the Jeep has the stock analog clock from 1985 in the dash which still works and runs constantly. I'm aware that it will kill a battery over time. The jeep sat for about 4-5 months with no love from the owner who was going through a divorce.

Damage, no. No physical damage. It looks perfect. I meant internal damage that will not allow it to fully charge.

No winch, no big lights, no big stereo.

Thanks again for the info. :thumbsup

 

[Luvnlife]

I'm going to try the parallel method on a blue top I have. I'll report back with the results

 

[Outnumbered]

Tyro is a good guy. I don't care what y'all say about him:skull

Thanks Tyro and nice to meet you:thumbsup

 

[460]

Tyro is a good guy. I don't care what y'all say about him:skull

Thanks Tyro and nice to meet you:thumbsup

Good to meet you too.

Don't tell brown what I said about him.




Sent from manly black iPhone using tapatalk!

 

[Ivan Dan]

I'm going to try the parallel method on a blue top I have. I'll report back with the results

I put a brand new yellow top in the chevelle 2 weeks ago. I left the lights on by mistake. Killed the battery overnight, I pluged it into a AMG battery charger overnite and it still will not get past 6 volts. I think i will try the good battery hooked to the bad battery on the charger.

This method definitely works as I've done it multiple times in the past.