Speaker & Sub Selection & Placement

[evantwheeler]

Hey all. New to RDP & new to boat ownership. I've recently purchased a 1993 Baja 240 Islander that has been very well taken care of by it's previous owner. I know it's not as cool or popular as one of the classic older west-coast boats, but I paid a fraction of the cost of a Hallet, Howard, or similar older boat and I will have just as much fun out on the water this summer I live in Las Vegas, having moved here for work about a year ago from Washington State (man I love the desert life and weather!!), but I will probably spend more time on Havasu as I have a good friend with a home there and plan to get down a half dozen or so times this summer with the next trip being for Desert Storm weekend.

Part of having fun on the water is having a good stereo, something this boat is lacking. It came with an older Sony head unit and 2 pair of old Pioneer 6x9's, a pair below the back bench and a pair under the dash on either side of the boat. I've spent HOURS this week reading and taking as many notes as I can to try and put together a system. My goals with the system are; 1. economic 2. balanced 3. clear and 4. efficient.

I plan to keep the old Sony head unit at this point. It works, and has a nice remote control on the drivers dash that allows me to control volume/mute the music as necessary. At this time, the only means of music I have is the FM radio (no cd's and I don't do mp3's), and honestly I quite enjoy Jack FM River Rat radio so I don't really think I need to upgrade except for maybe the case that the pre-amp outputs are a lower voltage than desired? (I need to find out what they are) I am going to add a Clarion EQS746 EQ which will allow me to use an Ipod or phone with the proper adapter to RCA jacks as my auxiliary input, with the headunit being the primary input into the EQ. The EQ has a main volume control, a front & back fader, and a sub volume control, along with all of the frequency adjustments that I have no clue how to properly adjust.

I plan to have 2 separate zones which will be controlled with the front/rear fader control. The main cabin speakers will be the front. I'll utilize a y-splitter off of the EQ front output to feed what will most likely be the 2 amp channels that power the cabin speakers. The rear speakers will be speakers that will be modular. I think I will have a set of 6x9's in some cheap wake tower enclosures that will be kept either in the engine compartment or maybe tucked in the the sides towards the rear of the gunwale storage area on each side. They'll have long wires that will allow me to pull the speakers back and hang them off the rear rail above the swim deck for some sounds when we're floating around in the water. I may put another set of speakers up in the open bow on the rear channel, but at this time there isn't really a place to put them unless I build some type of enclosure and that will be a project for a later date.

While I have the skills and tools to do the all of the install myself, I really lack current knowledge of today's stereo equipment. There are just too many options to choose from and I'm terrible at making a decision. I hope that you guys can help me make a decision and I can get stuff ordered so I can get everything installed and buttoned up to enjoy at Desert Storm.

My first request is cabin speaker placement and selection. In all the reading I've done, getting the speakers up high results in the best sound quality. Along those lines, the location of stock 6x9's (way down low) will not work and i'll probably be cutting some new holes in the gunwales which I'm fine with as long as I feel confident that the placement will be the best possible. I am thinking 2 sets of speakers in the gunwales and possibly a set of horn tweeters up on the dash. I've read where these horn tweeters really help complete the system at a very economic price level. I will probably play around with the location before either cutting a hole in the gunwale to point them inwards towards the boat, cutting holes in either side of the dash and pointing them back towards the stern, or building some enclosures that allow me to point them towards the center of the main cabin.

I'm thinking the cabin speakers go here? Any input?

Looking at speakers and assuming the front channel will have the 3 speakers and one set of horn tweeters, I have put together 4 sets of speaker options that I would like input on. I am not dead set on the 4 sets. If you all think the two sets in the gunwales are suffficient, I'll keep the money in my pocket! I've never been in a boat with any type of system, so I just don't have a baseline to help me make a decision.

Cabin Speakers Target budget $300.00

Polk db651 Front Gunwale $65.00
db691 Rear Gunwale $95.00
db651 "kick panel"? $65.00
Horn Tweeter Dash? $30.00
$255.00 total

db APS6.0W Front Gunwale $58.00
Drive APS8.0W Rear Gunwale $91.00
APS8.0W "kick panel"? $91.00
Horn Tweeter Dash? $30.00
$270.00 total

Boss MR652c Front Gunwale $45.00
MR752c Rear Gunwale $67.00
MR752c "kick panel"? $67.00
Horn Tweeter Dash? $30.00
$209.00 total

FusionMS-FR7021 Front Gunwale $118.00
MS-FR7021 Rear Gunwale $118.00
MS-FR7021 "kick panel"? $118.00
Horn Tweeter Dash? $30.00
$384.00 total

With any of the 4 above options, I'll be looking at a 4 channel amp capable of at least 150wx4 @ 2 ohms, assuming that he speakers will be paired up and wired in parallel to create 2 ohm loads. I've got my eye on 3 different very similar amps. I've selected class d full range amps as I've read that these are much more efficient than the class a/b offerings.
NVX JAD800.4 Full range Class D 125x4 - 4ohm 200x4 - 2ohm $200
PPI P900.4 Full range Class D 145x4 - 4ohm 225x4 - 2ohm $170
Polk PA D4000.4 Class D 125x4 - 4ohm 200x4 - 2ohm $230


You can see where I am at budge wise, so if you know of something that is of much better quality around the same price, I am open to suggestions and appreciate all input.

 

[evantwheeler]

Subs

Unfortunately when the previous owner recently put a new floor and carpet in the boat, they did not rebuild the rear bench seat. It was constructed of painted plywood and then covered in vinyl. It has been deteriorating and leaving wood splinters all over the floor, so I've torn it out and am in the planning phases of the rebuild.

My initial thought was that this was the perfect opportunity and location to install a couple of sealed down firing subs, one on either side which would still allow for my storage area under the center of the bench. The design and fabrication of the boxes would be straighforward and simple because they would be rectangular, and the location is very secure and would not be an easy target for thieves. In my research, it is clear that the most ideal location for a sub(s) is mid cabin under the dash as space allows, so the rear bench will be rebuilt with nothing but a storage compartment (unless someone can talk me into something different). If there is no space under the dash, then in the sides under the gunwales seems to be the next best option as SPL2k did here (very clean install!!). Fortunately for me, I could pretty comfortably curl up and sleep under the dash on either side, so there is LOTS of room for a single or multiple enclosures (one on each side?).

Like speakers, there are just too many options. Again, not having been in a boat with a system before, I don't have a baseline for what things sound like. Will I be happy with one 10"? One 12? Will I need 2 12's to give me the balance I desire. I don't need the loudest pounding system, but I want the bass to sound well balanced with some room to crank it up if I do want to wake the dead. From what I remember when I was in high school, if you over design your subs and amps and can run at a lower volume/gain, the bass sounds much better (at least to my ears). I'd like the sub(s) to respond well to all types of music, from the latest obnoxious summer mix filled with bass that someone wants to play, to the 70's and 80's rock that will come in through on the FM radio.

I am thinking to allow myself the opportunity to expand and keep the initial costs down a little bit, I should target subs with dual 4 ohm voice coils. With a single sub, I can wire the voice coils in parallel to give me a 2 ohm. If I decide that the bass isn't enough, then I add another 4ohm DVC sub and wire the two subs in parallel for a 1 ohm load.

Here are a couple subs I am looking at. Open to suggestions here, these subs have very good reviews and reported outputs for their cost and in a sealed enclosure, space requirements are very reasonable.


Dayton RSS265HO-44 10" 600wRMS 1200wMax 4ohm DVC 90.5db 25hz 600hz $140 0.55 cu ft sealed volume, 46hz F3 (i don't know what F3 means)
Dayton RSS315HO-44 12" 700wRMS 1400wMax 4ohm DVC 84.6db 20hz 500hz $157 0.49 cu ft sealed volume, 47hz F3
NVX VCW104 10" 750wRMS 1500wMax 4ohm DVC 83db 20hz 200hz $150 0.70 cu ft sealed enclosure

Can anyone comment on the difference between the higher end of the freqency range? The Dayton's go much higher, is that a good thing, bad thing or does it not make any difference?

I could probably find some cheaper subs, or some higher quality subs at a good price on Ebay. There are so many options, I just don't know what to look for. Kicker? Rockford? Polk?

To power the sub (s), I am looking at the same lines of amps in class D monoblock. They are all 1 ohm stable, so they work with my idea of system expansion if I need another sub.

NVX JAD1200.1 Class D Monoblock 500x1 - 4ohm 800x1 - 2ohm 1200x1 - 1ohm $230
PPI P1000.1 Class D Monoblock 580x1 - 4ohm 725x1 - 2 ohm 1000x1 - 1ohm $160
Polk PA D1000.1 Class D 500x1 - 4ohm 800x1 - 2ohm 1200x1 - 1ohm $225


Again, open to suggestions if they are in line with the costs of the components above and appreciate all suggestions!

 

[evantwheeler]

For sub installation, I am going to start on the port side first. I am thinking a small box built to fit the contour of the side of the boat in the front of the dash area.

Which direction should the sub face?

Any pointers on box construction that I should keep in mind? Obviously I'll make sure there is clearance for the travel of the sub regardless of it's orientation.

If I did want to go with two subs right off the bat, am I better off making a separate enclosure for each side, or will putting two subs on the port side yield the same results? It sure would be easier to keep them on the same side.....

 

[jetboatmatt]

You have so many questions here that If I were you I would go down to a local stereo shop and ask for help.
I have gone cheap in the past and it never works out!!
Buy Name brand speakers and Amps for sure!!
I have used Boss before and can say it's all crap!!!
I'm old school and still use Rockford Fosgate Amps. They just work!
JL for speakers or Alpine
Subs sound better if they face down in a boat!
I did my whole system myself and it cost right around 1000 for everything. I bought all of it off eBay and Amazon.
Just did my stereo in my truck as well for about the same price.
I would say save up if you can't afford the name brand stuff and save yourself a huge headache..

 

[evantwheeler]

Matt,

Thanks for the response. I searched your posts and saw all of your old threads about your system (you have a very nice boat by the way!). It looks like you have 4 of your 6.5's in the main cabin (thread here), in approximately the same locations that I plan to install mine. Are you happy with how it turned out? Where are the other 4 6.5's located? Where are your subs located? In the rear bench?

Using the "off-brand" stuff I've listed above and sourced off of Amazon, Ebay, or Sonic Electronics, I am right at $1,000 for the full install, maybe a little more with the batteries I will need to buy. If I went JL with any of this, that budget is out of the water, though there is no denying that their stuff is at the top as far as sound and quality goes. Still going to do this myself, just hoping for some input on what works and what doesn't mainly with the speaker & sub placement.

I appreciate the input.

Evan

 

[jetboatmatt]

I have 6 6.5 and two 6x9's and two shallow mount Pioneer 12's.
The 12's are under where my feet are. I like my storage and didn't want to get rid of it for speakers!!
I have 4 6.5's up high and 2 down low with the 6x9's. By bringing the speakers up its made a huge difference.
I have the Alpine SPR's and they are 100 Watts RMS each. In boats you need a lot of sound because its open. My stereo system is by no means competition worthy but sounds great for me. Sitting in the channel you can hear my system two boats to either side away. That's plenty!!
I have 3 battery's and can run pretty much all day long!!
Hope this helps and good luck!!
I would go with the POLK stuff! I had Polk speakers in my last boat and they worked great!!

 

[jetboatmatt]

I don't have the Alpine amp anymore it didn't work for me! I'm using all Rockford amps now!!!

 

[evantwheeler]

As planned, I am kept the current head unit. I purchased the clarion EQ, which gives me the pre-outs I need (F, R, and sub) and they are 6v pre-outs compared to the 2volt pro-outs on most of the cheap head units. I purchased an exile audio 4.0 blue tooth unit to use as the auxiliary input into the EQ which will allow anyone on the boat to pair their device as opposed to worrying about having the proper cords to connect different phones. I don't have any digital music other than using pandora so I will rely on friends for the music. After using the boat for a weekend, I kind of wish I had went with this JL Audio remote/blue tooth receiver combo (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-ZjVPmaoNwCm/p_13691127/JL-Audio-MBT-CRX.html). With the blue tooth, I am using the EQ as the volume control and the control knob is tiny and kind of a pain. Minor bitch.

It took me a month to decide on the speakers and amps, I'm terrible at making decisions when there are so many options. In the end I decided on Powerbass coaxials mostly because of price and looks honestly. They have a new marine line out with an 8" coax, the XL-82ss and I picked up a pair of those off eBay for $110. These will go in the gunnels adjacent to the rear bench seat. I also picked up a pair each of the 3xl 6.5" and 5.25" coaxs on eBay and will select a pair to go in the gunnels up by the dash on either side. How the speakers fit with existing holes and my new Dana marine side mount control will determine which size I end up installing.

For subs, I ended up finding a pair of Kicker compVR DVC 12's on Crutchfield scratch and dent for $175 shipped. They will be wired up for a 1 ohm load. I contemplated going with Powerbass subs, but their lower end subs have a paper cone and foam surround, and I decided I didn't want to risk getting them wet and ruining them. The next model up was another $50 more expensive than the kickers so I went kicker. The kickers are a poly cone with rubber surround.

The subs will be mounted one on either side under the dash in the locations shown on my pictures above. They will face each other, ie subs pointing towards each other, not back towards the passenger.

I went a little overboard on the amps, I got a PPI phantom 900.4 for the coaxs, and a PPI phantom 1000.1 for the subs. They're both class D amps with the 900.4 being a full range and the 1000.1 a mono. I ended up paying $380 for the pair with 3 year warranties from sonic electronics. I kind of regret not just going with a 900.5 like many do, just because I would have saved $200 and probably would have been just as happy. At 12v, the amps I bought end up putting out just above the RMS wattage of my speakers so I figure they give me room to grow my system if I decide to add another couple pair of speakers down the road by wiring everything in parallel at 2 ohms.

 

[evantwheeler]

The goods:

The hard part:

Speakers installed and some other visual and functional upgrades:

 

[evantwheeler]

I built some brackets to install my equailizer under the helm. I found the perfect spot for it, out of the way yet easily accessible.

Next up was building the sub boxes. I ended up with a sealed volume of 1.35 ft3. The manufacturer recommended 1ft3 for a compact sealed enclosure and with the space I had and the area I wanted to fill with these boxes, that's where I ended up. It is essentially a rectangular cube, taller than it is wide, and the sides are designed to follow the contour of the side of the boat. There is a little pocket between the rear wall and the side of the boat that will be used for storage of small, very seldom used items - safety gear like first aid kit, flares, extra sunscreen, portable battery backup/jump start pack, etc. I mocked the box up in cardboard first and then drew out all the panels in CAD. Turned out OK for my first real carpentry project.

 

[evantwheeler]

I used t-nuts for securing the woofers to the face and I did disassemble everything and glue all of the seams using some Loctite 375 construction adhesive. I purchased some speaker connectors from Amazon that had good reviews and installed in the top of the boxes to keep the rear storage area free of wires.

 

[evantwheeler]

The final project before wiring was building the amp rack. The best place I could come up with was on the front bulkhead under the helm. I built a plywood mounting plate and pre-drilled the mounting holes for the amps and installed t-nuts onto the back. I then pre-drilled and laid out the mounting holes with t-nuts for securing the wood to the bulkhead. The little piece on the lower right side is where my distribution/fuse block will be mounted for my ground & power leads. At this time, everything is going to stay bare. Until I'm sure that I won't be making any changes.

t-nuts for mounting to bulkhead

t-nuts for mounting amps

crappy low light iphone pic of install

 

[evantwheeler]

So some feedback on the stereo after having the boat on the water for a weekend.

I am thrilled with the system. The bass level is perfect. It gets as loud as I want, and hits hard and tight. I am slightly disappointed in the highs, and I'm not sure if it is because of the speakers, the amp settings, the equalizer settings or the fact that they are in an large open environment and I just need more tweeters or horns. I am going to do some research and come up with a game plan, but will probably start with some tweeters in pods up under the windshield pointed back into the passenger area. I am also going to build some baffles for behind the speakers to help direct more sound out into the passenger area as opposed to bouncing around back in the gunnels.

I don't have any pictures of the final install, but here are some additional details.

I ended up adding two group 31 Napa Marine Deep cells (part # 8231) as stand alone stereo batteries, ie, they are not connected to the alternator or any other accessories. I have two group 24 interstates on a dual battery switch for the engine, so I don't need these two batteries for any other purpose other than the stereo. The batteries are charged nightly on shore or at the marina using this dual bank battery charger plugged into a 120v source (http://www.amazon.com/NOCO-GEN2-Wate...ilpage_o02_s00).

The two new batteries are wired in parallel. I used a blue sea fuse block terminal (http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Syste...ilpage_o04_s00) with a 200 amp fuse (http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Syste...ilpage_o04_s00) connected right to the positive bolt to protect the positive 1/0 gauge welding wire running to the power distribution block at the amplifiers. I also ran 1/0 gauge welding wire for the ground to the distribution block. The distribution block is this unit, and works great for a 2 amplifier system (http://www.amazon.com/KnuKonceptz-KN...ilpage_o05_s00). It's compact and you can use it for both your power and ground distribution. I ran 2-gauge welding wire from the distribution block to the amps for both power and ground.

I ran a power wire from the battery to a switch on my dash that turns on all items in my system - cd player/radio/headunit, remote wire to clarion equalizer, blue tooth receiver, and remote wires to amplifiers. The load wire from the stereo switch is ran to a k4 2 circuit tab style terminal block which looks like this (http://www.k4switches.com/electrical...terminals.html), just with 2 circuits instead of 6. One circuit is the power circuit for all of the items listed above, and the other is the ground circuit with a single ground ran back to the battery.

I just spent the weekend on the lake and was able to listen all day - 6am to 4pm - as loud as I wanted and I'm sure it still had a few more hours left in it. I can't see needing any more stereo than I have, except for the highs or some additional mids on the transom or in the bow depending on my usage throughout the summer.