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AB942 Solar, Possible shit storm!!!

satellitemike

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The California State Assembly’s Utilities and Energy Committee has voted 10-4 to pass an amended version of Assembly Bill 942, which seeks to cut compensation rates for existing rooftop solar customers that send electricity to the grid.

The bill requires homes with rooftop solar that are sold or transferred to be shifted off their net energy metering plans, reducing the expected bill savings from the system.

AB 942, as originally proposed, sought to sunset net energy metering (NEM) for homeowners who installed solar under the NEM 1.0 and 2.0 rate plans within a 10-year window. The bill would have forced customers onto NEM 3.0, which pays about 80% less for electricity sent to the grid, making solar investments less financially viable.

The amended bill removed the 10-year sunset for all customers but retained the requirement that sold or transferred homes be shifted onto NEM 3.0.

Brad Heavner, executive director of the California Solar and Storage Association (CALSSA), said the bill “breaks contractual promises with millions of solar users.”

An average rooftop solar customer would face an electricity bill increase of about $63 per month after selling or transferring their home, potentially complicating real estate transactions.

Heavner said the amended AB 942 would be “unworkable in practice, putting utilities in the position of verifying real estate transactions … Messing with home values and the transferability of property has long been considered a dangerous ‘third rail' for California politicians, and this interference is no different.”

Lisa Calderon, an assembly member, filed the bill. Calderon previously spent 25 years in government affairs and political compliance with Southern California Edison, one of the state's investor-owned utilities.

“AB 942 backers claim it is intended to lower energy rates, but it is actually designed to protect utility profits,” said Heavner. “The real reason electricity rates keep skyrocketing in California is out of control utility spending on transmission infrastructure.”

The California Public Utilities Commission reports that the state's three largest electric utilities – PG&E, SCE, and SDGE – have raised customer rates by 110%, 90%, and 82%, respectively, over the last decade. Despite relatively flat electricity usage, utilities' transmission and distribution spending has increased by 300%.

“For-profit utilities get a lucrative guaranteed profit return on infrastructure spending, which provides an ongoing motive to keep spending more,” said Heavner.

Rooftop solar was estimated to save all California ratepayers, including non-solar customers, $1.5 billion in 2024 alone. However, it competes directly with the profit model of the state’s largest investor-owned utilities, which has made it a target for regulatory criticism.

“In solar, California leads. If this bill makes it to [California Governor] Newsom’s desk, we expect other states will be emboldened to take similar actions,” said Fox Swim, senior solar industry researcher at Aurora Solar. “What we should really be doing is incentivizing residential solar plus storage for its environmental and reliability benefits.”
 

Tankerchief

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I am shopping for an energy management system to keep what I generate. It started at 8 cents but has dropped to 2 cents. With access charges, the utility is getting it for nothing or I am actually paying them to take it. This is in Houston Texas.
 

J DUNN

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Yep, I feel like solar was huge scam from the utility companies and politicians bought it hook line and sinker, guess you could say I did as well. Only way around it I see is to get batteries to save and use my own power, heck I'd even hook up a gen just to dodge having to ever use grid power.
 

Outdrive1

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I would like to know what batteries cost, how much storage capacity they have and what’s involved in installation. How long do they last as well, or should I say how many years I should expect to get out of them.
 

Tankerchief

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I have found a server rack system with batteries, parallel inverter/charger and management software for about $15K to complement a 16 KW installed micro inverter system. I am still balking at spending another 15K on the system, but I probably will pull the trigger as I would like some return on the investment.
 

DRYHEAT

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Why not have a system big enough with enough battery power and a backup generator to go completely off grid?
 

OCMerrill

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I know here in the sity of Mission Viejo the MAX you can roof up is 10,000 watts. Sounds like allot but in reality its not if you have a pool or spa running and a bunch of Sq footage.

Also batteries have to be Tesla or a few other brands. You can't make you own system to some std. they have for you to follow or ? Based on all that I am holding off.

Perhaps when I get to Havasu things will be a little easier to obtain what I want. No grid essentially with the option to switch the system over when needed.
 

havasujeeper

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If I had solar, I would buy enough Tesla batteries to be self reliant, and completely disconnect from the grid. Yes, I understand this is illegal, so what you gunna do, arrest me?
 

NicPaus

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I would like to know what batteries cost, how much storage capacity they have and what’s involved in installation. How long do they last as well, or should I say how many years I should expect to get out of them.
I can ask when I go by my other job. The owner knows more about it than the solar company. They installed the system last Wednesday. I did all the electric prewire and panels. 5 kids installed the rest in a day. Not that complicated. I know the system is 9.5kw 3 batteries and they paid 35k all in with permits.
 

DRYHEAT

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If I had solar, I would buy enough Tesla batteries to be self reliant, and completely disconnect from the grid. Yes, I understand this is illegal, so what you gunna do, arrest me?
Please educate me, was that sarcasm or is it illegal not to be grid tied?
 

coolchange

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I would like to know what batteries cost, how much storage capacity they have and what’s involved in installation. How long do they last as well, or should I say how many years I should expect to get out of them.
Check out Will Prouse on YouTube. He tears into batteries and builds system. There’s a place in Phoenix that sells used panels cheap. Commercial units that get replaced when they hit 95%.
I’d like to build a system just to run my hvac. That’s should pay for itself in less that a year.
 

Uncle Dave

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If I had solar, I would buy enough Tesla batteries to be self reliant, and completely disconnect from the grid. Yes, I understand this is illegal, so what you gunna do, arrest me?

Fine you and prevent you from insuring your house which will result in losing your mortgage.
 

Uncle Dave

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Please educate me, was that sarcasm or is it illegal not to be grid tied?

Grid defection is illegal in california.

If at any point your home was ever connected to the grid you must maintain an interconnected pathway.

The only places that can truly be "off grid" are places that never were connected.
 

oldman

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Yes, I've been told once you are hooked up to power, legally, you cannot disconnect.






Off-Grid Electricity in California​

Off-grid electricity used to be illegal in California under Title 24. The law required residential homes to have an “interconnection pathway.” However, the law has recently been updated and specifically allows off-grid electricity.

Solar Laws in California​

California is one of the best states for solar power. As of 2020, all new homes up to three stories high must have a solar photovoltaic system installed. The system must meet all of the estimated annual energy consumption of the home. The solar mandate also applies to accessory dwelling units (ADUs), so you’ll need solar panels on your “granny flat,” too.

Even though California is very friendly towards off-grid solar, it is still the strictest state in America regarding code requirements. Your system will need to meet all of these requirements:

  • California Building Code, Title 24, Part 2
  • California Residential Code, Title 24, Part 2.5(One- and Two-family dwellings)
  • California Electrical Code, Title 24, Part 3
  • California Mechanical Code, Title 24, Part 4
  • California Plumbing Code, Title 24, Part 5
  • California Energy Code, Title 24, Part 6 California Fire Code, Title 24, Part 9
 

JM21

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I looked into going "off grid" when I built my home 4 years ago. SDGE wanted a big price tag so I thought let's go off grid. Well even back then the system I would have needed was about 50-60K all said and done, and LG batteries had a 10-15 year life at a 25K replacement cost. When you live off grid you really have to change a lot of habits and lots of luxury's go out the window. Weather can also change how you live, if you get 4-5 overcast days in a row you will start running out of power. Overall it just wasn't for me as much as I hate SDGE
 

bilz

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Isn't newscums sis a wig at pg&e?
 

Sleek-Jet

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Yep, I feel like solar was huge scam from the utility companies and politicians bought it hook line and sinker, guess you could say I did as well. Only way around it I see is to get batteries to save and use my own power, heck I'd even hook up a gen just to dodge having to ever use grid power.

How do you figure that machines that reduce a customers consumption of a product is a scam for the producers of the product?
 

caribbean20

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Net, net, if passed does this just mean utility pays less to homeowners with solar? In the current model, don’t all the other rate payers without solar likely pay more to offset those payments to solar owners?

I’m not real excited about subsidizing solar rate payers since we don’t have solar. Is that it in a nutshell or am I off base?
 

Angler

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The first two years of having my system, I would get a credit over $800.
This years bill was just over $1500 for the year. This is on net 2.0
They have been ripping solar customers for years.
 

t&y

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The first two years of having my system, I would get a credit over $800.
This years bill was just over $1500 for the year. This is on net 2.0
They have been ripping solar customers for years.
Silly question; Have you cleaned your panels?
 

Angler

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Silly question; Have you cleaned your panels?
Yes. Single story house, pretty easy to do.

Edison doesn't give you hardly anything back for the extra power.
37 panels on a 2000sf house.
 

t&y

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Yes. Single story house, pretty easy to do.

Edison doesn't give you hardly anything back for the extra power.
37 panels on a 2000sf house.
Holy shit... I ask because we noticed a significant drop in production. After getting up there and cleaning them our output went right back to where it should have been. We went about a year without any cleaning and all the dirt out here added up pretty quick.
 

DRYHEAT

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I looked into going "off grid" when I built my home 4 years ago. SDGE wanted a big price tag so I thought let's go off grid. Well even back then the system I would have needed was about 50-60K all said and done, and LG batteries had a 10-15 year life at a 25K replacement cost. When you live off grid you really have to change a lot of habits and lots of luxury's go out the window. Weather can also change how you live, if you get 4-5 overcast days in a row you will start running out of power. Overall it just wasn't for me as much as I hate SDGE
I have friends that lived over the hill from Havasu off grid 15 or 20 years ago and they had that much money tied up into their system and still needed a back up generator. Battery maintenance was a big pain in the ass back then.

I’ll gladly pay the electric company for all that pain in the ass until they can’t provide reliable electricity anymore.🤣
 

boatpi

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Excerpt; This bill would provide that, on and after July 1, 2026, an eligible customer-generator that has taken service pursuant to NEM 1.0 or 2.0 for 10 or more years is no longer entitled to take service under that contract or tariff. The bill would require that eligible customer-generator to take service under the then-current applicable tariff adopted by the commission after December 1, 2022, disqualify that eligible customer-generator from eligibility for the avoided cost calculator plus glide path, as specified, and would require the eligible customer-generator to pay all nonbypassable charges that are applicable to customers that are not eligible customer-generators.

 

boatpi

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Posted online;
California’s proposed AB 942 is seeking to resurrect a key element of the CPUC’s 12/2021 PD on NEM 3.0

That Proposed Decision included three elements:

1. Drastic reduction in export compensation from customers with solar panels

2. A grid access charge of $8/kW per month based on panel size

3. Retroactive application of these two provisions to existing systems once they reached 15 years of life

Jeff St. John moderated a widely watched debate on the merits and demerits of these three elements and a link to the debate appears below.

Bowing to public pressure, the final decision only included the first element.

Subsequently, an income graduated fixed charge was approved for all customers of the regulated utilities. It was not specific to solar customers. However, it went up with income. The highest value was set at $24.15.

In some ways, it was a watered down version of the grid access charge. If a customer had a 5 kW panel, they would have paid $40.

There is no cap on the IGFC. It may well hit $40 at some point — just for solar customers. Or it may mutate into a grid access charge. This was the second bite at the apple.

AB 942 wants to apply the Net Billing Tariff to customers on NEM 1 and 2 once the PV systems have been in place for 10 years. It invokes item 3 of the PD. The 15 year time limit has shrunk to 10 years, perhaps since 4 years have passed. It’s the third bite.

It reneges on a contract that customers have with their utility. It is based on a false premise that solar customers cause rates to go up. Rates are going up because of unchecked utility spending. Customers install solar because rates are going up. It’s not the other way around. AB 942 has gotten causation backwards.

I am testifying tomorrow before the Utilities and Energy Committee against AB 942.
 

rrrr

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“For-profit utilities get a lucrative guaranteed profit return on infrastructure spending, which provides an ongoing motive to keep spending more,” said Heavner.

Rooftop solar was estimated to save all California ratepayers, including non-solar customers, $1.5 billion in 2024 alone. However, it competes directly with the profit model of the state’s largest investor-owned utilities, which has made it a target for regulatory criticism.
Let's break this down. That "lucrative guaranteed profit" is about 10%. Considering California's regulatory nut vise and the very real prospect that wildfires can wipe out billions worth of transmission infrastructure in hours, it's hardly excessive.

The real reason rooftop solar guarantees that were passed into law years ago are being dismantled is because of California's mandate which requires X percentage of electrical generation to be produced from renewables. It has created a market distortion that has caused a glut of solar during the day, and made solar power produced during that period worthless.

The evil utilities didn't cause that, the dumb bastards in Sacramento did.

Now let's discuss the comments by Brad Heavner. Who is he?

Brad Heavner, executive director of the California Solar and Storage Association (CALSSA), said the bill “breaks contractual promises with millions of solar users.”

Brad is a shill for the entities that produce the worthless solar power. He condemns the utilities for spending money on distribution infrastructure. You know why they have to build that capacity? Because the Assembly mandated the overproduction of solar power and its percentage of total generation. The utilities have been forced by law to build the infrastructure, but there's so much solar power being produced during peak hours it cannot be consumed.

The utilities have been placed in this position by the Assembly's ineptitude, and they're abandoning gigawatt hours of baseload generation. Then, with the help of Newsom, the Assembly caused further market distortion by passing out subsidies for renewables and requiring the shutdown of nuclear plants statewide. That attracted even more development money for solar, and the sector is overbuilt to a ridiculous extreme.

Heavner makes reference to those "guaranteed" profits, which is the manner in which every utility in the US makes money. If utilities aren't allowed to make profits, they'll disappear. The stupidity of these people is astounding.

PG&E, SCE, and SDGE rates have increased up to and beyond 100% because the Assembly mandated forced adoption of renewables. The tens of thousands of homeowners that are now being told their solar resale contracts are being outlawed are victims of the fools in Sacramento.

The overarching background that has built this folly is the responsibility of California's Democrats. Their majority in the Assembly and other governmental offices has produced the mantra that all profit is evil and is destroying America. Think I'm making that up? Take a look at the Google search results for the search string "California electric utilities profit margin."

 

island time

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Do you think people will start taking a closer look at batteries? I know I am. I want to save the power I get from Solar and use it at night when I need it.
We have this. No issues since installed. All battery with no sun
 

oldman

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I have friends that lived over the hill from Havasu off grid 15 or 20 years ago and they had that much money tied up into their system and still needed a back up generator. Battery maintenance was a big pain in the ass back then.

I’ll gladly pay the electric company for all that pain in the ass until they can’t provide reliable electricity anymore.🤣
Probably 30 years ago we were doing pole line extensions in Hemet (12k residential utility lines) and we got our asses chewed out by the hillbillies living off grid in trailers along these roads. It was too expensive for them to build out the infrastructure to the single wide.

So when you talk about off grid, I'll tell you......... Scrounged up mixed matched car batteries with jumper cables all cobbled together under the trailer, with probably some of the worst cheap assed panels on saw horses scattered around the yard.

When we finally talked to some of them ( after cussing us for the power lines) they had some of the most red neck engineering to get electricity, they lived a very meager lifestyle, and not a single AC unit.

They had a combination of DC and AC appliances, and knew which where more efficient.

Has anyone here bought a piece of land with no utilities and had to have them brought to the property? just because you build they are not required to supply power.
 

DLC

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What about all these HUGE solar systems like off of Rice road

or
The one off the 15 going into Vegas ???

this
is basically a conspiracy Creating another monopoly from the same power source…..

PG&E And SDG&E need to dis banded….

SDG&E
Almost made 1,ooo,ooo,ooo.oo in profits. In 2024. Only $891,ooo,ooo.00 profit in 2024

IMG_1781.jpeg
 

77charger

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Ca just wants you guys to supply the grid. Newscum gets power without building new plants. Next you know they will ban storage batteries.
 

DLC

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Probably 30 years ago we were doing pole line extensions in Hemet (12k residential utility lines) and we got our asses chewed out by the hillbillies living off grid in trailers along these roads. It was too expensive for them to build out the infrastructure to the single wide.

So when you talk about off grid, I'll tell you......... Scrounged up mixed matched car batteries with jumper cables all cobbled together under the trailer, with probably some of the worst cheap assed panels on saw horses scattered around the yard.

When we finally talked to some of them ( after cussing us for the power lines) they had some of the most red neck engineering to get electricity, they lived a very meager lifestyle, and not a single AC unit.

They had a combination of DC and AC appliances, and knew which where more efficient.

Has anyone here bought a piece of land with no utilities and had to have them brought to the property? just because you build they are not required to supply power.

Way Side Oasis RV park was ran off generator ( out next to Lake Alamo ) They had like 9 miles of tele poles to be set for $80k

Not sure if the numbers match… But - that’s what I remember ….

@Bpracing1127

Do you remember the #’s
 

DLC

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What Happened to every new house Had to have panels….

Could you imagine….

What Kamala‘s vision would be w/ all electric cars, appliances Water heaters and cooktops



We the TAX payer would be SO FUCKED !
 

Uncle Dave

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Net, net, if passed does this just mean utility pays less to homeowners with solar? In the current model, don’t all the other rate payers without solar likely pay more to offset those payments to solar owners?

I’m not real excited about subsidizing solar rate payers since we don’t have solar. Is that it in a nutshell or am I off base?

There is no subsidy. That was all a sales pitch.

Lawrence Berkely labs did a study on the sales pitch that big power sold everybody that the non solar public was subsidizing solar customers and found that if any subsidy exists at all it's so small as to be meaningless something like a few hundreds if not thousandths of a cent.

Big power steals solar customers power and resells it for a fat profit. At min they buy it cheap and sell it expensive.
 
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DLC

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So Why is Az electric so much cheaper?

San Diego North county my bill in Az is 1/4 of what sd bill is w/ the 10 tons of ac and only 3 tons in SD


same w/ water bill in SD

SD I have septic system NO sewer fee’s. I’ll have a $300 + water bill

AZ casa sewer fee’s and it’s less than $100 bucks
 

oldman

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Way Side Oasis RV park was ran off generator ( out next to Lake Alamo ) They had like 9 miles of tele poles to be set for $80k

Not sure if the numbers match… But - that’s what I remember ….

@Bpracing1127

Do you remember the #’s
I don't know the real numbers but the first guy pays a pretty large buy in, and as more people tie into what he established along the road he gets his money back, one by one.

But in some cases a guy with millions buys a lot at the end of the road (usually on a mountain top) and pays big bucks with no real thought of cost. And the minions along the road have animosity and refuse to buy in, or still can't afford their portion Still having hard feelings and giving the line crews grief for setting poles and ruining nature.

It was amazing to see how those people lived,.
 
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NicPaus

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What Happened to every new house Had to have panels….

Could you imagine….

What Kamala‘s vision would be w/ all electric cars, appliances Water heaters and cooktops



We the TAX payer would be SO FUCKED !
New construction in CA requires solar. Unless it's a ADU and the existing house doesn't have it.

Gas water heaters are gone in 2 years. Imagine appliance are similar.

I have had numerous people want gas removed on there kitchen remodels. I don't get it.

I asked about the battery costs. He is going to check. He said the last house 2 years ago they were around 3k each. Not sure what they were last week as it was a package deal.
 
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rrrr

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There is no subsidy. That was all a sales pitch.

Lawrence Berkely labs did a study on the sales pitch that big power sold everybody that the non solar public was subsidizing solar customers and found that if any subsidy exists at all it's so small as to be meaningless something like a few hundreds if not thousandths of a cent.

Big power steals solar customers power and resells it from a fat profit.
Stealing? Fat profit? There's so much daytime excess solar capacity in California, its utilities are paying utility providers in Arizona, New Mexico, Oregon, and Washington millions of dollars to take it.

The daytime megawatt hour price in Southern California is often negative.


The Lawrence report has been accompanied by several others, including one by the CPUC, that the NEM scheme is responsible for California's high electrical energy costs. It's just who you wish to believe.
 

rcmike

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Let's break this down. That "lucrative guaranteed profit" is about 10%. Considering California's regulatory nut vise and the very real prospect that wildfires can wipe out billions worth of transmission infrastructure in hours, it's hardly excessive.
So let's just think about this a second, and I don't have any real information here.

But let's say you have a couple nice nuclear plants that are functional, in good shape, and then you have some fires you caused, that you will need several billion for payouts..


How can we get that money? We'll, we are guaranteed 10% on our expenditures, so how about we budget, I don't know, maybe $5b per plant to remove them. And we all know those costs will at least quadriple in California, and the timeline will triple.. Then we could build a few billion dollar solar fields out in the middle of the desert, where they are as inefficient as possible, along with the associated transmission..

We are on the way..

Then we can blame all the rate hikes to cover a few billion in profit on the solar people..

Win/win


How about if they are going to fuck us with insane project costs that we cannot opt out of, we spend that money undergrounding everything, so we can stop starting fires?
 

Sleek-Jet

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There is no subsidy. That was all a sales pitch.

Lawrence Berkely labs did a study on the sales pitch that big power sold everybody that the non solar public was subsidizing solar customers and found that if any subsidy exists at all it's so small as to be meaningless something like a few hundreds if not thousandths of a cent.

Big power steals solar customers power and resells it from a fat profit.

The answer to markets like California is real time pricing at the meter. I wonder how solar owners would like it if they had to pay California ISO for their solar output at 2pm on a warm spring day? I wonder how many people would invest $$$ in roof top solar if that was the case. The infamous "Duck Curve" has grown so distorted that prices in solar often go negative.

Truth is, in most regions of the country energy costs are a minority percentage of the power bill. California cost/kWh is so high because the ISO has to secure generation that is available when renewables are not, and absent a capacity market (which the ISO does not have) that means higher $/kWh prices.
 
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Uncle Dave

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The answer to markets like California is real time pricing at the meter. I wonder how solar owners would like it if they had to pay California ISO for their solar output at 2pm on a warm spring day? I wonder how many people would invest $$$ in roof top solar if that was the case. The infamous "Duck Curve" has grown so distorted that prices in solar often go negative.

Truth is, in most regions of the country energy costs are a minority percentage of the power bill. California cost/kWh is so high because the ISO has to secure generation that is available when renewables are not, and absent a capacity market (which the ISO does not have) that means higher $/kWh prices.

California wants it all ways.

They simultaneously tell me they don't want my solar on a sunny day but then they force me to sell it to them at a song then resell it for way more without lifting a finger.

If I didn't get in at nem 2.0 they wont let me bank it.

Remember when peak time was solar hours? Solar fixed that.

On another website we computed the cost of replacing that solar would be something like 20B dollars so spend the money then.

Fine if you dont want my output let me off the grid.

You cant tell me you dont want my power but force me to keep selling to you.
 
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