AB942 Solar, Possible shit storm!!!

[Uncle Dave]

Stealing? Fat profit? There's so much daytime excess solar capacity in California, its utilities are paying utility providers in Arizona, New Mexico, Oregon, and Washington millions of dollars to take it.

The daytime megawatt hour price in Southern California is often negative.

California is paying other states to take its solar energy

California has been paying utilities in other states to take its surplus electricity to avoid grid overload according to a report.

www.newsweek.com

The Lawrence report has been accompanied by several others, including one by the CPUC, that the NEM scheme is responsible for California's high electrical energy costs. It's just who you wish to believe.

Yes stealing - when you force a (NEW) homeowner to put up panels AND contract any surplus output to you at a cost way below what you charge him for the same thing - like all new home owners are forced to.

I'd call that theft.

Which nem scheme is responsible? Nem1? Not enough of them if you do the math, and the panels sold under 1 are small and almost all output is basically consumed on site.

Nem 2? They pay grid maintenance fees like everyone else does as well as supply the bulk of the daytime power to the grid at a huge discount compared to rotational power.


My power isnt worth anything to you? Fine let me off the grid.

 

[Uncle Dave]

The litmus test for who is subsidizing who is to allow each party to walk away.

California wont let solar providers walk away.

 

[angiebaby]

Yes stealing - when you force a homeowner to put up panels AND contract any surplus output to you at a cost way below what you charge him for the same thing - like all new home owners are forced to.

I'd call that theft.

Which nem scheme is responsible? Nem1? Not enough of them if you do the math, and the panels sold under 1 are small and almost all output is basically consumed on site.

Nem 2? They pay grid maintenance fees like everyone else does as well as supply the bulk of the daytime power to the grid at a huge discount compared to rotational power.


My power isnt worth anything to you? Fine let me off the grid.

I know nothing about solar energy, so excuse my ignorance. Can you explain how homeowners are forced to put up panels? I thought I've read that new builds may require them, but I don't think that's what you're referring to.

 

[Uncle Dave]

I know nothing about solar energy, so excuse my ignorance. Can you explain how homeowners are forced to put up panels? I thought I've read that new builds may require them, but I don't think that's what you're referring to.

That's what I was referring to. Anyone building a new home in cali is forced to put panels on it unless it's an ADU.

The homeowner is contractually obligated to sell any excess power he doesn't use or store onsite (battery) to the power company, and by "sell" I mean give away for next to nothing.

The power company then takes his power they pay nothing to create or maintain for - and sell it to everyone else at the going $ per KWH rate.

This 3rd generation solar contract with new home owners or people that choose to add panels today is called NEM 3.0

 

[Smupser]

Slightly off topic but a question I’ve always had is they say you cannot add panels after the fact and maintain your NEM status(I’m covered under 2.0)

But assuming you knew what you were doing( or had a buddy that did), had all the matierials including additional panels. Could you add more panels without them knowing? I mean, if you were to shutoff your power and tie more panels in, how would they know?

 

[Uncle Dave]

Slightly off topic but a question I’ve always had is they say you cannot add panels after the fact and maintain your NEM status(I’m covered under 2.0)

But assuming you knew what you were doing( or had a buddy that did), had all the matierials including additional panels. Could you add more panels without them knowing? I mean, if you were to shutoff your power and tie more panels in, how would they know?

Not quite.

Under nem 2.0 you can add either 10% or 1000 watts (whichever is less I believe) to an existing contract.

AND /OR

You can add unlimited non export solar that never feedbacks to the grid.

 

[Track Man]

I’ve been living off grid for for about 15 years now. Five years without a solar system 10 years with the solar system. Anybody living on grid think they’ll just go off grid you’re out of your mind. It cost me a lot of money. Also, a lot of time. You need to be well educated because when things quit working you’re the power company. Good luck finding a Solar Guy if something goes wrong. I started with lead acid batteries, big POS. They were guaranteed for seven years and they lasted seven years. I would never recommend those things to live with to anybody. I now have three lithium ION batteries. It cost me $21,000. I lost one within two years. They still got a long way to go to be reliable. I have a 25KW propane generator. That was $10,000 15 years ago. It doesn’t always start when it’s supposed to in charge the batteries good luck. Also needs lots of maintenance and eat a lot of propane. I have a 3000 gallon propane tank. I use about 2000 gallons of propane a year. I have propane for heat and hot water. I feel like I can’t leave my house. It’s a full-time job. People with air conditioners, no way. I have a very energy efficient house also. Also have another back up generator when everything goes down. it’s a whole different lifestyle. My inverter and charge controller are now 10 years old and I’m looking to upgrade them. My inverter is only a 4448 V system. i’d say we’re a good size house. You’re gonna be spending 75 to 100,000. I tell people if you live on the grid just pay your bill.

 

[Smupser]

Not quite.

Under nem 2.0 you can add either 10% or 1000 watts (whichever is less I believe) to an existing contract.

AND /OR

You can add unlimited non export solar that never feedbacks to the grid.

But let’s assume what I said about just adding them, how would they know?

 

[NicPaus]

But let’s assume what I said about just adding them, how would they know?

Satellite images. But they would have to be looking. Some cities have a computer program that will check every few years for illegal additions or added structures. I don't think it would pick up a few extra panels.

The project I am on that just got solar. They baited and switched the panels. Customer looked at the panels before they went up and looked up the model number. They are offering to ad more after final. Problem is the roof layout was messed up as they are a different size.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Slightly off topic but a question I’ve always had is they say you cannot add panels after the fact and maintain your NEM status(I’m covered under 2.0)

But assuming you knew what you were doing( or had a buddy that did), had all the matierials including additional panels. Could you add more panels without them knowing? I mean, if you were to shutoff your power and tie more panels in, how would they know?

The know instantly because your export leaves the window it's been programmed for.

Then your sweet nem 2.0 contract goes down the drain.

 

[Uncle Dave]

I’ve been living off grid for for about 15 years now. Five years without a solar system 10 years with the solar system. Anybody living on grid think they’ll just go off grid you’re out of your mind. It cost me a lot of money. Also, a lot of time. You need to be well educated because when things quit working you’re the power company. Good luck finding a Solar Guy if something goes wrong. I started with lead acid batteries, big POS. They were guaranteed for seven years and they lasted seven years. I would never recommend those things to live with to anybody. I now have three lithium ION batteries. It cost me $21,000. I lost one within two years. They still got a long way to go to be reliable. I have a 25KW propane generator. That was $10,000 15 years ago. It doesn’t always start when it’s supposed to in charge the batteries good luck. Also needs lots of maintenance and eat a lot of propane. I have a 3000 gallon propane tank. I use about 2000 gallons of propane a year. I have propane for heat and hot water. I feel like I can’t leave my house. It’s a full-time job. People with air conditioners, no way. I have a very energy efficient house also. Also have another back up generator when everything goes down. it’s a whole different lifestyle. My inverter and charge controller are now 10 years old and I’m looking to upgrade them. My inverter is only a 4448 V system. i’d say we’re a good size house. You’re gonna be spending 75 to 100,000. I tell people if you live on the grid just pay your bill.

For your average guy this is great advice - bend over and just take it.

It was MUCH harder 10 years ago, now much of this is built into the micro inverters and gateways, and you are right you still need a massive genset and probably a backup for that, and to know how it all works AND to be able to work on it.

 

[Smupser]

The know instantly because your export leaves the window it's been programmed for.

Then your sweet nem 2.0 contract goes down the drain.

Makes sense

 

[NicPaus]

The know instantly because your export leaves the window it's been programmed for.

Then your sweet nem 2.0 contract goes down the drain.

The export would be programmed in the enphase unit?

Trying to learn more about solar. Doesn't seem to complicated. The head solar guy was only 20 years old on my project. But Homeowner hired them and specd what he wanted. They did the solar on his other house few years ago when it needed to be done to lock in.

 

[Uncle Dave]

The export would be programmed in the enphase unit?

Trying to learn more about solar. Doesn't seem to complicated. The head solar guy was only 20 years old on my project. But Homeowner hired them and specd what he wanted. They did the solar on his other house few years ago when it needed to be done to lock in.

Yes.

The existing system is set to export and the contract that was signed indexes/ calls out the panels and the inverter used and determines what the max power is going to be, this is how the power company knows what to expect and when you've left the reservation so to speak.

What Smupser COULD do is add more solar and tell the inverters he adds NOT to export to the grid.
This is called non export solar and you can make as big of a non export array as you wish.

It's not that tough, there are some really tricky bits but 90% of it is pretty simple.

 

[Smupser]

Yes.

The existing system is set to export and the contract that was signed indexes/ calls out the panels and the inverter used and determines what the max power is going to be, this is how the power company knows what to expect and when you've left the reservation so to speak.

What Smupser COULD do is add more solar and tell the inverters he adds NOT to export to the grid.
This is called non export solar and you can make as big of a non export array as you wish.

It's not that tough, there are some really tricky bits but 90% of it is pretty simple.

Yeah, I think I remember after the NEM 2.0 window closed the solar companies were trying to sell additional panel set ups that were as you say non-export

@uncledave if you did this, you should probably have a couple of batteries charging of the non export to really make the most of it?

 

[Uncle Dave]

Yeah, I think I remember after the NEM 2.0 window closed the solar companies were trying to sell additional panel set ups that were as you say non-export

@uncledave if you did this, you should probably have a couple of batteries charging of the non export to really make the most of it?

Correct.

To get the most value from that, you either size it juuust big enough to cover your normal baseload, or you store the overage in a battery.

What you dont use or store you throw away.

Either scheme works in non export.

 

[Mandelon]

So California produces too much solar electricity.
So much that we have to pay adjacent states power grids to take it from us.
We pay the highest power rates in the continental US. Only Hawaii is more expensive. (Their gasoline is cheaper than CA though)
Utility companies are paying billions to upgrade infrastructure, but really the ratepayers are footing the bill, while the companies make hundreds of millions in profit.
They turn off their solar systems sometimes because of the oversupply of power.

Yet, home builders are mandated to add even more solar panels to new construction.

Is it only the politicians' virtue signaling that drives the pro solar legislation?
Who is behind the push for more solar?

I supposed the utilities ultimately don't care because they charge us to "transport" the power. The cost of it is irrelevant.
SDGE has sold off or dismantled the vast majority of their generation abilities, they just pay whatever it costs and add their 10%.

Please correct me if any of this is incorrect.

 

[Uncle Dave]

So California produces too much solar electricity.
So much that we have to pay adjacent states power grids to take it from us.
We pay the highest power rates in the continental US. Only Hawaii is more expensive. (Their gasoline is cheaper than CA though)
Utility companies are paying billions to upgrade infrastructure, but really the ratepayers are footing the bill, while the companies make hundreds of millions in profit.
They turn off their solar systems sometimes because of the oversupply of power.

Yet, home builders are mandated to add even more solar panels to new construction.

Is it only the politicians' virtue signaling that drives the pro solar legislation?
Who is behind the push for more solar?

I supposed the utilities ultimately don't care because they charge us to "transport" the power. The cost of it is irrelevant.
SDGE has sold off or dismantled the vast majority of their generation abilities, they just pay whatever it costs and add their 10%.

Please correct me if any of this is incorrect.

Not quite.

California only produces too much solar sometimes, most of the time it is gladly and fully consumed as well as augmented by other power producing plants.

Go to cal iso right now and look at what solar is making vs the capacity.

Follow the money - the power companies are writing the legislation.
If we REALLY had too much solar we wouldn't be adding it and storage for it to every new house.

 

[LazyLavey]

You Think???

Former Edison executive Calderon, now a lawmaker, seeks to cut rooftop solar credits​

Former Edison executive Calderon, now a lawmaker, seeks to cut rooftop solar credits

Nearly 2 million California rooftop solar owners would see their energy credits slashed under legislation by Assemblywoman Calderon.

www.yahoo.com

 

[rrrr]

So California produces too much solar electricity.
So much that we have to pay adjacent states power grids to take it from us.
We pay the highest power rates in the continental US. Only Hawaii is more expensive. (Their gasoline is cheaper than CA though)
Utility companies are paying billions to upgrade infrastructure, but really the ratepayers are footing the bill, while the companies make hundreds of millions in profit.
They turn off their solar systems sometimes because of the oversupply of power.

Yet, home builders are mandated to add even more solar panels to new construction.

Is it only the politicians' virtue signaling that drives the pro solar legislation?
Who is behind the push for more solar?

I supposed the utilities ultimately don't care because they charge us to "transport" the power. The cost of it is irrelevant.
SDGE has sold off or dismantled the vast majority of their generation abilities, they just pay whatever it costs and add their 10%.

Please correct me if any of this is incorrect.

But those complaining about the utility's profits and the state of the market are blaming the wrong entity. This is all a result of laws passed by the Assembly.

 

[Big B Hova]

I just want my solar company to return my phone calls and fix my bills. Sunpower won't return my calls other than to collect $. I put a stop payment with my bank in March. They fucked up my billing and won't respond to my complaint tickets

 

[Good Stuff]

I just want my solar company to return my phone calls and fix my bills. Sunpower won't return my calls other than to collect $. I put a stop payment with my bank in March. They fucked up my billing and won't respond to my complaint tickets

You do know they are bankrupt right? Their customer service got even worse since August. Takes months to get a solar transfer through on a home sale. We started insuring around them in the title business knowing the transfer will go through at some point.

 

[Big B Hova]

You do know they are bankrupt right? Their customer service got even worse since August. Takes months to get a solar transfer through on a home sale. We started insuring around them in the title business knowing the transfer will go through at some point.

Yes sunpower is now sunpower financial. And they are incompetent. Can't figure out billing. Can't get people's panels serviced (luckily mine work). I sense a class action lawsuit headed their way. Some customers have brand new systems that they can't even turn on that they are paying for because sunpower can't get technicians out there.

They have doubled up my payments on multiple occasions, charged me for not being on auto ACH which I clearly am (or was until I put a stop payment on it)

Ive kept a call log, complaint ticket log (5 complaints so far, all closed out with no call backs)

Only calls I've recieved are from their debt collections department

Prior to their bankruptcy takeover everything was fine

 

[wash11]

@wash11 to the courtesy phone please...

Our deal penciled out nicely due to our remote location. Unisource quoted me 100-120k to bring power to our property. For 1/2 that investment we have a system that has needed zero in the 6 years we've had it. Zero. That figure includes a properly sized backup genie that has very little run time. It's completely automatic and just does its thing in extreme weather or extreme usage. Yes, we have a large mini split AC with two indoor units that keeps the house plenty cool too.

Would this make sense financially if power were already here? Only if I had fuck you money and just wanted to be bulletproof.

The ideal setup for most of you guys is to add batteries and invertor and skip feeding back into the grid. Use the grid as your backup generator. The Chicken has already done a system like this in Wickenburg with some really heavy loads. In other words, this house is big and wasn't designed with efficiency in mind. They simply sized the system to overcome that.

I believe Solark has the inverter that allows this to work- all automated and in one nice package that can be mounted outdoors.

Off grid solar can get a bad wrap for being unreliable. A lot of systems you hear about having troubles are do it yourselfers, Amazon type gear or have been added to over several years. With a solid design, solid gear and a professional putting it all together- it outperforms the grid 100% of the time. My life is living proof.

 

[liv4riv]

Is their a system that will just power my pool pump when the sun is out that is cost effective ?

 

[Mandelon]

I want a super simple solar system to run water through my existing rooftop rubber tube solar pool heater.

I want a couple panels to power a 12V pump that will push water onto the roof when it is sunny out. I could add more rubber tube heating coils at a lower elevation if needed as well. Not sure where to find such a thing.

 

[SoCalDave]

I installed a 240 watt panel/controller, a 2800 watt pure sign wave inverter and 2 6 volt batteries on a playhouse my nephew built for his daughter's. Getting house power to that area was not an option so I played around with what we could source at the time this was several years ago and it is still working flawlessly.

I'm shocked as I just pieced it togher and thought it would die within a year or two.

 

[mesquito_creek]

Our deal penciled out nicely due to our remote location. Unisource quoted me 100-120k to bring power to our property. For 1/2 that investment we have a system that has needed zero in the 6 years we've had it. Zero. That figure includes a properly sized backup genie that has very little run time. It's completely automatic and just does its thing in extreme weather or extreme usage. Yes, we have a large mini split AC with two indoor units that keeps the house plenty cool too.

Would this make sense financially if power were already here? Only if I had fuck you money and just wanted to be bulletproof.

The ideal setup for most of you guys is to add batteries and invertor and skip feeding back into the grid. Use the grid as your backup generator. The Chicken has already done a system like this in Wickenburg with some really heavy loads. In other words, this house is big and wasn't designed with efficiency in mind. They simply sized the system to overcome that.

I believe Solark has the inverter that allows this to work- all automated and in one nice package that can be mounted outdoors.

Off grid solar can get a bad wrap for being unreliable. A lot of systems you hear about having troubles are do it yourselfers, Amazon type gear or have been added to over several years. With a solid design, solid gear and a professional putting it all together- it outperforms the grid 100% of the time. My life is living proof.

X2….. I have been running 100% off grid on my 2nd property for close to 5 years.