Team Penske fired top management-INDY scandal

[boatpi]

Penske fires Cindric in wake of cheating scandal

Roger Penske has fired team president Tim Cindric, IndyCar managing director Ron Ruzewski and IndyCar general manager Kyle Moyer in the wake of an Indianapolis 500 cheating scandal.

www.espn.com

 

[baja-chris]

Penske fires Cindric in wake of cheating scandal

Roger Penske has fired team president Tim Cindric, IndyCar managing director Ron Ruzewski and IndyCar general manager Kyle Moyer in the wake of an Indianapolis 500 cheating scandal.

www.espn.com

The Captain acting as a Captain should.
Rather shocking as Cindric has been running Penske racing for decades.

 

[JJ McClure]

Austin better get up on the wheel.

 

[Rivrat]

Austin better get up on the wheel.

Yes he better run well at the 600 this weekend. Wouldn’t be surprised if Roger drops him. But I’m sure there’s contract and sponsor obligations that need to be met for that $$

The Captain acting as a Captain should.
Rather shocking as Cindric has been running Penske racing for decades.

They looked like clowns during qualifying.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

If you ain't cheating, you ain't winning.

Perhaps, I'm in the minority, but Cheating is part of racing and should be encouraged. Yes, you should be penalized if caught, but I would never fire someone for cheating, that seems more like placing blame and shielding the team owner.

I turned 55 this month, and as I get older it becomes plain to me that moral high ground is dumb. I've always paid all my debts, tried to be a good human and in return you lose. Cheat Cheat Cheat and if you get caught Deny Deny Deny. That seems the only way you win in a capitalistic society. Take every thing you can get your hands on.

Racing is life.

 

[wallnutz]

If you ain't cheating, you ain't winning.

Perhaps, I'm in the minority, but Cheating is part of racing and should be encouraged. Yes, you should be penalized if caught, but I would never fire someone for cheating, that seems more like placing blame and shielding the team owner.

I turned 55 this month, and as I get older it becomes plain to me that moral high ground is dumb. I've always paid all my debts, tried to be a good human and in return you lose. Cheat Cheat Cheat and if you get caught Deny Deny Deny. That seems the only way you win in a capitalistic society. Take every thing you can get your hands on.

Racing is life.

When you take the ingenuity out of racing, it turns vanilla.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

When you take the ingenuity out of racing, it turns vanilla.

Ha ha , I read that as integrity the first time.

 

[dirtracer]

Playing in a gray area is different than breaking a black & white rule

 

[callbob]

If you ain't cheating, you ain't winning.

Perhaps, I'm in the minority, but Cheating is part of racing and should be encouraged. Yes, you should be penalized if caught, but I would never fire someone for cheating, that seems more like placing blame and shielding the team owner.

I turned 55 this month, and as I get older it becomes plain to me that moral high ground is dumb. I've always paid all my debts, tried to be a good human and in return you lose. Cheat Cheat Cheat and if you get caught Deny Deny Deny. That seems the only way you win in a capitalistic society. Take every thing you can get your hands on.

Racing is life.

Kind of like being a politician?

 

[Hardly Satisfied]

There are all cheating in one way or another some get caught and some don’t. Glad Roger stepped up

 

[JFMFG]

If you ain't cheating, you ain't winning.

Perhaps, I'm in the minority, but Cheating is part of racing and should be encouraged. Yes, you should be penalized if caught, but I would never fire someone for cheating, that seems more like placing blame and shielding the team owner.

I turned 55 this month, and as I get older it becomes plain to me that moral high ground is dumb. I've always paid all my debts, tried to be a good human and in return you lose. Cheat Cheat Cheat and if you get caught Deny Deny Deny. That seems the only way you win in a capitalistic society. Take every thing you can get your hands on.

Racing is life.

I agree. Back when I did demolition derby before kids there was so many tricks we learned to do that tech would never catch. Everyone does it just a matter of who gets caught.

 

[dirtracer]

It's all perspective.. The Pensky Organization made decisions base on morals...
Some thoughts to ponder;
rule breaking vs large scale scandals..
Cheating is infidelity & isn't right if you're married
Guys winning in girls sports isn't right
When do you teach your kids to cheat?
What image do you want to represent..
Cheating is great when you win, what happens to your credibility when you get caught?
What price do you pay to win at all cost?

 

[RaceTec]

There must have been a little more behind the scenes that they are not sharing. To fire Tim who has been there forever is VERY surprising! @rrrr any take on this one? As Butch Meyer once told me "The rule book is just a guideline for losers!"

 

[rivermobster]

If you ain't cheating, you ain't winning.

Perhaps, I'm in the minority, but Cheating is part of racing and should be encouraged. Yes, you should be penalized if caught, but I would never fire someone for cheating, that seems more like placing blame and shielding the team owner.

I turned 55 this month, and as I get older it becomes plain to me that moral high ground is dumb. I've always paid all my debts, tried to be a good human and in return you lose. Cheat Cheat Cheat and if you get caught Deny Deny Deny. That seems the only way you win in a capitalistic society. Take every thing you can get your hands on.

Racing is life.

I spent five years working for Penske at Longo.

And I can tell you first hand, they value integrity above all else.

Back then, Greg was there every day. And even with almost 500 employees, he knew Everyone by first name and would always take the time to chat with anyone.

Roger would show up in the middle of the night (after hours) and go through the whole place top to bottom. If Anything was out of place, someone was gonna get written up the next day.

It's zero tolerance for foolishness with those guys. I always appreciated that working for them.

 

[playdeep]

It's all perspective.. The Pensky Organization made decisions base on morals...
Some thoughts to ponder;
rule breaking vs large scale scandals..
Cheating is infidelity & isn't right if you're married
Guys winning in girls sports isn't right
When do you teach your kids to cheat?
What image do you want to represent..
Cheating is great when you win, what happens to your credibility when you get caught?
What price do you pay to win at all cost?

^^^^This^^^^
It's easy to tell the couch racers as opposed to those that have raced...
Guessing those who promote cheating also lick Lance Armstrong's spandex.
Cheating is cheating, period.
It's about integrity &winning fair&square.
Used to race an open dirt modified...costs got prohibitive.
Dropped down to a restricted B mod.
360 c.i./9 1/2 to 1 compression/2 barrel carb ,stock cast iron intake...really affordable.
Built a 100%legal motor.
There were guy's running 11-1 or more compression, lightweight cranks,Hollowed out(acid dipped)intakes etc.
Won the championship(luck,divine intervention).Won a bunch of features.
Got pumped(compression)&torn down almost weekly. by guys who were cheating.
After the season Couple guys told me I had to be cheating because they were and I was kicking their ass.
Couldn't cheat,not in my DNA.
My father(RIP) would've Kicked my ass..
Best feeling racing wise I've ever had was winning a championship &doing it 100% within the rules.
Something about emerging victorious honestly...is a feeling that's surrealistic.

 

[Nordie]

I spent five years working for Penske at Longo.

And I can tell you first hand, they value integrity above all else.

Back then, Greg was there every day. And even with almost 500 employees, he knew Everyone by first name and would always take the time to chat with anyone.

Roger would show up in the middle of the night (after hours) and go through the whole place top to bottom. If Anything was out of place, someone was gonna get written up the next day.

It's zero tolerance for foolishness with those guys. I always appreciated that working for them.

Strange, we use Penske for maintenance and it is honestly the worst treatment and maintenance that I've ever seen in my life. A toddler watching youtube could do a better job.

 

[Romans9]

If you ain't cheating, you ain't winning.

Perhaps, I'm in the minority, but Cheating is part of racing and should be encouraged. Yes, you should be penalized if caught, but I would never fire someone for cheating, that seems more like placing blame and shielding the team owner.

I turned 55 this month, and as I get older it becomes plain to me that moral high ground is dumb. I've always paid all my debts, tried to be a good human and in return you lose. Cheat Cheat Cheat and if you get caught Deny Deny Deny. That seems the only way you win in a capitalistic society. Take every thing you can get your hands on.

Racing is life.

So capitalism is bad?
I don’t think that is what you meant but it reads like it.

 

[rivermobster]

Strange, we use Penske for maintenance and it is honestly the worst treatment and maintenance that I've ever seen in my life. A toddler watching youtube could do a better job.

Maintenance?

For what exactly?

 

[Sportin' Wood]

So capitalism is bad?
I don’t think that is what you meant but it reads like it.

IMHO it is a by product of capitalism. Not that capitalism is bad. The same could be said for any form of government, at least with Capitalism everyone has an equal opportunity to cheat.

IMHO History seems to point to winning at Capitalism requires cheating. Kind of like winning at racing.

 

[joecfd1]

I spent five years working for Penske at Longo.

And I can tell you first hand, they value integrity above all else.

Back then, Greg was there every day. And even with almost 500 employees, he knew Everyone by first name and would always take the time to chat with anyone.

Roger would show up in the middle of the night (after hours) and go through the whole place top to bottom. If Anything was out of place, someone was gonna get written up the next day.

It's zero tolerance for foolishness with those guys. I always appreciated that working for them.

I've bought a couple of Lexus's from Longo in the past. Definitely a first class operation! They run a tight ship...

 

[Ragged Edge]

I would imagine that after the push to pass debacle at the beginning of last year there was a Team Penske management meeting where the Captain explained that heads are going to roll if this type of shit happens again. Being at the top Cindric is ultimately responsible. I'm sure the message has been received by the rest of the crew.

 

[boatpi]

Many years ago, I work with Greg when he had a dishonest employee that was involved with a stolen car scheme at his Mercedes dealership. Needless to say they were pretty upset. I was running a trap team at the time we set up the guy , parts manager, to make some other cars go away. Did a lot of Surveillance figure the whole thing out got the car back. First class businessman.

 

[rrrr]

There must have been a little more behind the scenes that they are not sharing. To fire Tim who has been there forever is VERY surprising! @rrrr any take on this one? As Butch Meyer once told me "The rule book is just a guideline for losers!"

Hahaha, Butch is a quiet guy, but he can toss out some zingers.

I'll lay out the basics for the members, you already know these things below. I don't have any direct knowledge of the situation, I'm just another SGOTI that has made a few phone calls.

Since Penske's 1999's purchase of IndyCar, the community and fans have been conditioned to think it's OK that Roger owns the Speedway, the Indianapolis 500, the IndyCar series, IMS Productions (which owns the broadcast rights to all races and contracted with Fox to televise them), and a majority position in Ilmor, who builds the badged Chevrolet engines. He signs the paychecks of the tech inspectors, the competition committee, race control, and the C suite executives.

He also owns Team Penske, the three car team that has won the majority of races since he purchased the above listed assets from the Hulman-George family in 2019.

I don't have any insight from major stakeholders. But as you know, there has been rumblings of discontent by team owners, especially Andretti/TWC, and they aren't happy about the overall situation and haven't been since the acquisition. They also believe Penske has not spent the money required to increase visibility and grow the sport. The figure of a minimum $100 million to make the series more relevant has been bounced around.

I'm surprised by the firing of Cindric. But there have been signs. He had been groomed as the eventual CEO of the operations when Roger would retire. But the P2P scandal last year, where two team cars had illegally accessed the software enabling the push to pass feature and won one race while using it, had put a chink in the armor of the organization. Cindric and Ruzewski were suspended for two races, which included the 500. Roger didn't make any public comments regarding the personnel issues, but it was widely known he was furious at Cindric for the breach of integrity.

Then, in January, it was announced that Cindric was stepping away from his day to day duties as president of Team Penske.

MOORESVILLE, N.C. (Jan. 31, 2025) – Team Penske announced today that Tim Cindric has decided to step back as the overall day-to-day leader of Team Penske's racing programs. Tim will remain as the President of Team Penske's INDYCAR efforts and have oversight to the team’s racing archives and historical assets. Ron Ruzewski will continue as Managing Director for the INDYCAR team.

Michael Nelson will remain as the President of Team Penske’s NASCAR Program and Vice President of Operations while Jonathan Diuguid will continue in the role of Managing Director of Porsche Penske Motorsport. Both Nelson and Diuguid will report directly to Roger Penske.

From Tim Cindric:

“I have lived my dream job for the past 25 years as the overall leader of the Penske Racing organization. I've had the opportunity to work with some of the best people in the business while achieving many milestones together. I've decided I need to make a change that provides me with the flexibility I need at this stage of my career. I appreciate the understanding Roger (Penske) has provided throughout our conversations and I'm confident this team will continue to succeed as we have a proven leadership team in all areas.”

There was a collective shoulder shrug in the paddock. I don't think the significance of the move was properly evaluated and understood by the press and insiders at the time. But in retrospect, the change was a significant demotion of Cindric by Roger Penske, instead of a benign retirement age influenced decision made by Cindric.

I would imagine that after the push to pass debacle at the beginning of last year there was a Team Penske management meeting where the Captain explained that heads are going to roll if this type of shit happens again. Being at the top Cindric is ultimately responsible. I'm sure the message has been received by the rest of the crew.

That's exactly what happened. Roger was incandescent about the P2P deal and Cindric's weak explanation to IndyCar and the public. Ruzewski and Moyer were the team leaders for Will Power and Scott McLaughlin, and they were told the same thing at the time.

 

[JJ McClure]

Anyone got Rogers number? I need a job.

 

[whiteworks]

If you ain't cheating, you ain't winning.

Perhaps, I'm in the minority, but Cheating is part of racing and should be encouraged. Yes, you should be penalized if caught, but I would never fire someone for cheating, that seems more like placing blame and shielding the team owner.

I turned 55 this month, and as I get older it becomes plain to me that moral high ground is dumb. I've always paid all my debts, tried to be a good human and in return you lose. Cheat Cheat Cheat and if you get caught Deny Deny Deny. That seems the only way you win in a capitalistic society. Take every thing you can get your hands on.

Racing is life.

I think there is a fine line between cheating in racing and creating advantages that have yet to be determined as against the rules. I favor the concept of creating advantages that yet to be determined as against the rules. That being said I have this burden of maintaining my personal integrity, I’m such a loser LOL

I had no idea that everyone was a bunch of cheating mother fuckers at KOH for a very long time, we just did our own thing and ran a clean program. Makes you wonder how people are able to fund there racing programs. I don’t think I will compromise my personal ethics just to make some money, I don’t think it has happy endings for most.

 

[RaceTec]

Thank you @rrrr for another great response and insight! I didn't know about the P2P incident. Just to clear up the "Cheating" that I have seen. Most programs will find a chink or missing details in the rules then exploit that until the rules are changed. An example would be the 20' of fuel line to increase fuel system volume. I truly believed that Cindric was going to be CEO soon. I have worked with him and Roger a few times individually and together, and Roger treated him like one of his kids.