What would you want to see if I do a new engine build write up?

[obnoxious001]

Asking before I start, what particular parts of an engine build would you like to see?

It's been some time since I sat down and did a write up. It's time consuming and to shoot my own photos means a lot of cleaning oil and assembly lube off my hands during the process. I just completed a matching pair of 489 blower (Procharger) engines, and I shot quite a number of photos with the exception of the initial tear downs and of course what the machine shop and balance shop did.

So is there anything I can share that would be interesting to someone?

 

[Kachina26]

The little things that make the difference between assembling parts and actually building an engine.

 

[obnoxious001]

The little things that make the difference between assembling parts and actually building an engine.

If you have seen any of the write ups I did years ago, I actually show how I measure bearing and thrust clearances, details like pulling the new oil pump apart to make sure it will not have an issue, how I file fit rings, maybe some little assembly tips that a beginner may not think about.

 

[Your ad here]

Proper valvetrain geometry.

 

[Dana757]

You should start a YouTube channel. People would love your stuff. No fancy editing needed.

 

[UltraLucky]

Setting up a Mark IV block roller cam retrofit.

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

Anything you are willing to write about and share, I'm(as I'm sure others are) willing to absorb!!

 

[82daytona]

Outboards

 

[obnoxious001]

Proper valvetrain geometry.

That will be there

 

[obnoxious001]

Setting up a Mark IV block roller cam retrofit.

Not too much different than the Gen 5 I will be writing about. If your mark IV block is drilled for a cam retainer plate, you can limit cam thrust that way (as with these two Gen 5's I just put together), but even if not, you can use a thrust button, or if it's a V drive setup with water pump, I wrote a separate article on how to set up a Torrington thrust bearing.

 

[pronstar]

Differences between boat builds and street builds might be popular.

 

[obnoxious001]

Outboards

I have done exactly one 200 Merc, and it has lasted about 22 years or so to this date.

 

[obnoxious001]

You should start a YouTube channel. People would love your stuff. No fancy editing needed.

Thanks, haven't messed with video much, was thinking while I was shooting photos how it could be a better media.

 

[sintax]

You should start a YouTube channel. People would love your stuff. No fancy editing needed.

this would be a killer idea!

 

[Fastdadtsmith]

I wrote a separate article on how to set up a Torrington thrust bearing.

Where are your articles posted? In this forum? Thanks Barry

 

[sintax]

I guess for me, I'd be most interested in the small stuff that gets done that you wont find in the normal build steps in a manual, but make the difference. I know some guys mess with the oil passages, blocking some, enlarging or restricting others, chamfering or making tweaks to factory parts / finishes. What goes into a standard build vs an endurance engine vs a drag engine.

I've built a few motorcycle engines, but have never done a car / boat engine, i'm sure theres tons of differences.

 

[obnoxious001]

Differences between boat builds and street builds might be popular.

That can be done with basically a few sentences. Most of the marine engines I build would run on the street with no issues. Street engines usually need a little bit more bearing clearance, maybe slightly tighter piston to wall since the blocks will be warmer.

 

[River Runnin]

6.2L DI with blueprinted Hamilton 212.

 

[RaceTec]

Can you please show / explain when cylinder length becomes important in a stroker application?!?!? No one seems to care about the piston coming out of the bottom of the cylinder at BDC!!! Also checking valve to piston clearance... I would give you a GREAT deal on a set it you make a couple movies I could use explaining this stuff! Gen 3 Hemi's with stroker cranks are a NIGHTMARE! Just because someone makes a specific stroke doesn't mean it will work in your application! Ok, sorry Barry, rant over...

 

[obnoxious001]

Where are your articles posted? In this forum? Thanks Barry

Yes, the Torrington was not too long ago, several years ago I did quite a number of builds.

 

[obnoxious001]

Can you please show / explain when cylinder length becomes important in a stroker application?!?!? No one seems to care about the piston coming out of the bottom of the cylinder at BDC!!! Also checking valve to piston clearance... I would give you a GREAT deal on a set it you make a couple movies I could use explaining this stuff! Gen 3 Hemi's with stroker cranks are a NIGHTMARE! Just because someone makes a specific stroke doesn't mean it will work in your application! Ok, sorry Barry, rant over...

And you are buying me a Gen 3 Hemi block? Naturally Racetec pistons are featured in all of my builds.

 

[CobraDave]

Not really specific but what kind of money and type of motor would it take to reach about 500 horses, Efi, to compete with Mercury. Then sell a shit ton of them.

 

[outboard_256]

Differences between boat builds and street builds might be popular.

This.

Most of us know how an engine works, and how to rebuild one. Many know how to make HP out of an engine. But few know how to make it last on the water.

 

[obnoxious001]

Not really specific but what kind of money and type of motor would it take to reach about 500 horses, Efi, to compete with Mercury. Then sell a shit ton of them.

I think one of the big issues with that is making it smog compliant. Not sure what other hoops you need to jump through.

 

[obnoxious001]

This.

Most of us know how an engine works, and how to rebuild one. Many know how to make HP out of an engine. But few know how to make it last on the water.

When people ask why I use certain parts that cost a little bit more, my basic analogy is that I can drive down the highway in my older pick up at 80 mph, and only be turning the engine 2500 rpm. I think most jet boats aren't even going to cruise until 3000 rpm or so, and who runs a jet boat (or really any boat) cruising at 35 or 40 mph? So if you start turning the engine 5,000 or even 6,000 rpm, the piston speed has doubled, so there has to be more wear and heat. The main things I learned over 40 years ago working at Gale Banks was that bearing clearances need to be increased over stock (I have measured some stock stuff at .0018" on the mains, where I prefer more like .003". Pistons and rings have been improved over the years with better materials and more accurate machining (Thanks Racetec!). Cylinder heads and camshafts contribute to better power.

I am currently opening up a 1400 horsepower turbo engine that someone else rebuilt to fix an issue, and verify that it's fit to race the Parker Enduro at the end of October. I may report back once I find the issue from the previous shop (far out of state), the engine only has about 3 hours on it.

 

[Riverbottom]

Barry, I think a write up on balancing would be informative. Might get Pat H involved. Internal, external, counterweights etc.

 

[obnoxious001]

Barry, I think a write up on balancing would be informative. Might get Pat H involved. Internal, external, counterweights etc.

That may have to be separate, I am stubborn and send my stuff to the same guy I have used for 40 years so don't really have photos, but can make statements about exactly what he does to make them run so smooth. Most of the "package" deals off the shelf get a box of pistons that are "close enough", and same with rods.

Internal and external is important, but most (not all) forged aftermarket cranks are internally balanced, so it's important to either buy the right damper and flywheel, or in some cases the originals can be machined. Much of that will depend on the caliber of the engine, as a more economical cast crank may still be externally balanced to allow the builder to use the original parts if they are in nice enough condition. Speaking primarily about BBC here. Fords have a couple of different counter weights, and 350 SBC are neutral balanced (internal) from the factory.

 

[Backlash]

I would love to see and learn anything you'd be willing to share Barry!! Maybe just start at the beginning with the selection of an empty block, and point out the subtle things you look for, and the subtle changes you might make, and why. Then go from there and see where the build thread takes you. I'm sure there would be a ton of interest, especially with your knowledge and reputation.

 

[obnoxious001]

I would love to see and learn anything you'd be willing to share Barry!! Maybe just start at the beginning with the selection of an empty block, and point out the subtle things you look for, and the subtle changes you might make, and why. Then go from there and see where the build thread takes you. I'm sure there would be a ton of interest, especially with your knowledge and reputation.

I shot photos of complete build I did on a matching pair of Gen 5's that will be getting Prochargers on them. Gen 5 blocks would not usually be my first choice as head gasket choices are limited, but that's what he had. I looked for some of my old builds, I had hosted the photos on Photobucket and when they wanted to start charging money I pulled my photos off of there, so those 8 and 10 year old articles I wrote no longer have photos with them, so I won't bother linking them.

 

[rivermobster]

Can you please show / explain when cylinder length becomes important in a stroker application?!?!? No one seems to care about the piston coming out of the bottom of the cylinder at BDC!!! Also checking valve to piston clearance... I would give you a GREAT deal on a set it you make a couple movies I could use explaining this stuff! Gen 3 Hemi's with stroker cranks are a NIGHTMARE! Just because someone makes a specific stroke doesn't mean it will work in your application! Ok, sorry Barry, rant over...

I was gonna say before I read all the replies...

Do a detailed 540 build. I was gonna do this when I worked at Mikes. I took most of the pics, just needed to take a few more, and then start doing the write up. (obviously that never happened)

The difference in a stroker engine power over stock power is beyond amazing. The first time I drove a 331 Mike (JMS Racing) had built, I couldn't believe how much power came from that little engine!!!

There is a LOT to it. More than most realize, that's for damm sure.

I think a nice documentation, starting from the VERY beginning would be awesome. And by beginning I mean: selecting all the parts your gonna use and WHY! piston selection, rod length, cam and rocker selection and setting up all the valve train geometry correctly, so you don't bounce the valves off the pistons or bang the piston skirt into the crank!!! lol

Anyone that knows how to use a torque wrench, plasti-gauge and a feeler gauge can BUILD an engine.

Knowing what parts to PICK when building an engine, takes years of experience and knowledge.

You're obviously not going to teach that online, but showing what parts you picked and WHY, could be super interesting to most guys on here.

(Pretty sure I still have a lot of pics I can dig up)

 

[obnoxious001]

The difference in a stroker engine power over stock power is beyond amazing. The first time I drove a 331 Mike (JMS Racing) had built, I couldn't believe how much power came from that little engine!!!

I think what you meant to say was the difference between a performance engine and stock power. Some years ago I built a 506 cubic inch engine for a certain Comp Jet race boat, less than 4" stroke. The owner of the engine invited a couple of his competitors to watch the dyno test for some unknown reason, and they were shocked at how much torque this engine delivered, compared to their 496 engines that they thought would smoke this one in the torque department since they had 4.25" stroke cranks. Torque (and therefor horsepower, since the dyno calculates horsepower from the measured torque) is dependent on how much air and fuel you can burn in a proper ratio. It's more obvious why a forced induction engine produces more torque and power, since you can get more air and fuel in the cylinders, but using the correct combination of parts in a normally aspirated engine can do very well.

I have some parts and a block for a 327 Ford that I should be doing in the future. I think it's meant to go in a 63 Falcon, pump gas engine.

 

[obnoxious001]

Anyone that knows how to use a torque wrench, plasti-gauge and a feeler gauge can BUILD an engine.

That's what I would consider "assembling" an engine. In the past I have normally made statements about why I used which parts, it's just been years since I wrote one up, many of the current members may not have seen or remembered stuff like a 600 hp pump gas iron headed 468 I built. Last year or the year before I put together a 460 Chevy with unported 990 heads and a roller cam that also made over 600 hp on a very well known dyno, but it may have been slightly more compression than one would consider running in a boat with pump gas, probably OK for the street.

 

[rivermobster]

That's what I would consider "assembling" an engine. In the past I have normally made statements about why I used which parts, it's just been years since I wrote one up, many of the current members may not have seen or remembered stuff like a 600 hp pump gas iron headed 468 I built. Last year or the year before I put together a 460 Chevy with unported 990 heads and a roller cam that also made over 600 hp on a very well known dyno, but it may have been slightly more compression than one would consider running in a boat with pump gas, probably OK for the street.

"Assembling" is exactly right.

"Selection" is a whole different story. and the most Important story of all.

 

[mattyc]

I would be interested in a write up describing cylinder head and camshaft selection for different applications and different goals

 

[rivermobster]

I think what you meant to say was the difference between a performance engine and stock power. Some years ago I built a 506 cubic inch engine for a certain Comp Jet race boat, less than 4" stroke. The owner of the engine invited a couple of his competitors to watch the dyno test for some unknown reason, and they were shocked at how much torque this engine delivered, compared to their 496 engines that they thought would smoke this one in the torque department since they had 4.25" stroke cranks. Torque (and therefor horsepower, since the dyno calculates horsepower from the measured torque) is dependent on how much air and fuel you can burn in a proper ratio. It's more obvious why a forced induction engine produces more torque and power, since you can get more air and fuel in the cylinders, but using the correct combination of parts in a normally aspirated engine can do very well.

I have some parts and a block for a 327 Ford that I should be doing in the future. I think it's meant to go in a 63 Falcon, pump gas engine.

Timely story...

Last week I got involved trying to get a 383 to run right. It was one of those Blue Print crate engines that someone installed into a Jeep with a Tremec 6 speed. It would bog and backfire through the carb everytime you hit the gas.

I'll spare you the boring details, but in the end it ran perfect. The drivability was basically spot on at any RPM or load.

But...

Being it was a 383 stroker, I was expecting it to snap your neck in a super light Jeep! The thing was a dud. I've driven bone stock 350's that felt like they had more power.

This reinforces the opinion that more stroke isn't Always the better option.

 

[obnoxious001]

Timely story...

Last week I got involved trying to get a 383 to run right. It was one of those Blue Print crate engines that someone installed into a Jeep with a Tremec 6 speed. It would bog and backfire through the carb everytime you hit the gas.

I'll spare you the boring details, but in the end it ran perfect. The drivability was basically spot on at any RPM or load.

But...

Being it was a 383 stroker, I was expecting it to snap your neck in a super light Jeep! The thing was a dud. I've driven bone stock 350's that felt like they had more power.

This reinforces the opinion that more stroke isn't Always the better option.

Cam and heads, along with a little compression make all the difference in the world. Years ago I built a higher compression, roller cam 383 with I forget which aluminum heads for a Glamis sand jeep. He gave me a ride on the asphalt near his home, told him he should not be doing that as it was going to twist his frame all up! A little different story than your engine, but it was purpose built to run 7,000 rpm!

 

[obnoxious001]

I would be interested in a write up describing cylinder head and camshaft selection for different applications and different goals

That should almost be a story in itself, as I am going to write up what I just built since I have all the photos. I can explain why I used the oval port Brodix heads that I did, and even cam specs that were selected to go with the Pro Charger that will be mounted on each one. Even got the lobe separation changed to work with the marine blower application, vs what ISKY had on the shelf.

 

[rivermobster]

Cam and heads, along with a little compression make all the difference in the world. Years ago I built a higher compression, roller cam 383 with I forget which aluminum heads for a Glamis sand jeep. He gave me a ride on the asphalt near his home, told him he should not be doing that as it was going to twist his frame all up! A little different story than your engine, but it was purpose built to run 7,000 rpm!

9:1 compression and 114 degree lobe center cam. Total slug.

 

[Nanu/Nanu]

I'm going to try and find your threads about your motors.

If you decide on a motor please describe why you chose it. Then could you describe the reason behind your choices for parts and how the parts correspond to help you select other parts.

Then could you explain how you do your tuning to help really dial it in?

I maybe biased but I wouldn't be unhappy if you chose a 454 bbc N/A Carbureted motor. Not an over the top build but enough to get high horsepower and torque and still maintain reliability.

 

[obnoxious001]

I'm going to try and find your threads about your motors.

If you decide on a motor please describe why you chose it. Then could you describe the reason behind your choices for parts and how the parts correspond to help you select other parts.

Then could you explain how you do your tuning to help really dial it in?

I maybe biased but I wouldn't be unhappy if you chose a 454 bbc N/A Carbureted motor. Not an over the top build but enough to get high horsepower and torque and still maintain reliability.

You need to go back about 10 years, don't think I have done one at all since I moved out here to AZ 7 years ago. The one that might really interest you was a .060" over 454, iron head, pump gas compression that made 617 hp, but unfortunately the associated photos are no longer with it as I quit my Photobucket account.

Tuning is really separate from "the build", the two engines I just finished left as long blocks. The customer will bolt on the Pro Chargers, and the engines will get tuned in the boat with air/fuel gauges.

The write up will be based on this pair of 489 cu in "blower" engines, I was more asking if someone had a specific question on how to measure and assemble. I need to sit down and get started, it's a long process to do start to finish.

 

[Nanu/Nanu]

You need to go back about 10 years, don't think I have done one at all since I moved out here to AZ 7 years ago. The one that might really interest you was a .060" over 454, iron head, pump gas compression that made 617 hp, but unfortunately the associated photos are no longer with it as I quit my Photobucket account.

Tuning is really separate from "the build", the two engines I just finished left as long blocks. The customer will bolt on the Pro Chargers, and the engines will get tuned in the boat with air/fuel gauges.

The write up will be based on this pair of 489 cu in "blower" engines, I was more asking if someone had a specific question on how to measure and assemble. I need to sit down and get started, it's a long process to do start to finish.

Gotcha yeah I figured I overlooked some details. I would love to see how you measure everything. I'm not happy with my current motor and would really like to pull it tear it down and make sure it meets all the specs. I'm completely capable but I wouldn't know where to start or how to do it. I really want to learn about it though for my own knowledge of really learning what it's doing and how to work on it!

Thank you for the heads up on your old build. I'll take a look for it and I'm anxious to watch your upcoming build thread.

 

[pkrrvr619]

quad rotor set up!

 

[obnoxious001]

Coming soon, just been too busy to get it all written up at one time. So far I have the text for the shortblock, getting to degreeing the camshaft and assembling heads next. Hopefully it's worth waiting for, particularly to someone new to engine building since it will truly be done step by step.

 

[lenmann]

Cant wait, but being patient nonetheless.

 

[mattyc]

Looking forward to it

 

[obnoxious001]

Looking forward to it

A little more proof reading and editing, and then have to arrange the photos that I want to add

 

[banana boat]

Asking before I start, what particular parts of an engine build would you like to see?

It's been some time since I sat down and did a write up. It's time consuming and to shoot my own photos means a lot of cleaning oil and assembly lube off my hands during the process. I just completed a matching pair of 489 blower (Procharger) engines, and I shot quite a number of photos with the exception of the initial tear downs and of course what the machine shop and balance shop did.

So is there anything I can share that would be interesting to someone?

Barry send me the link to the long write up you did . I seem to have lost it.

 

[obnoxious001]

Barry send me the link to the long write up you did . I seem to have lost it.

You've been waiting for it! How I Build a Big Block Chevy Performance Marine Engine.

I recently built a matched pair of 489 cubic inch engines for an RDP member. I will leave it to him to identify himself if he sees fit. With some minor variations, these build instructions could apply to most marine performance engine builds. They left here as long blocks, but were destined...

www.riverdavesplace.com

 

[PlumLoco]

I don't think it requires a video, but a simple "recipe" and parts list of how to make power from a small port/small plug BBC without breaking the bank. There are so many of these motors out there, and they do seem to make pretty good torque. Seems like an overlooked option for a boat motor to me.

 

[obnoxious001]

I don't think it requires a video, but a simple "recipe" and parts list of how to make power from a small port/small plug BBC without breaking the bank. There are so many of these motors out there, and they do seem to make pretty good torque. Seems like an overlooked option for a boat motor to me.

Depends on the end goal and desired RPM range I think. Middle of last year I did one for a Whaler, but decided to replace his peanut port heads with some closed chamber, small oval port heads that were cheaper than rebuilding his heads (they were in poor shape), and increased the compression of the 8-1 engine.

I have heard a few stories about guys making 600 horsepower with ported peanut port heads, but it's not that easy to port iron heads when so many inexpensive aluminum heads are available now. Not only that, dynos vary, so I am skeptical about how much power they actually are making, particularly in light of some of the 600 hp pump gas NA engines I have built.

I am currently ordering parts for either a 454 or 427 cubic inch mild engine for a 1959 Biesmeyer, that obviously won't require too much power for the owner to be happy, maybe a good project for a set of the peanut heads I have sitting around taking up space?