How is the used boat market doing this season?

[Bpracing1127]

Not a lot. No way getting they are ever getting back to prices. I think these custom boat MFGs will be able to find 20-30 customers a year still.

Mass produced toons could see a drop like RVs and trailers

Unfortunately I agree.

I will say I know of a boat mfg, very well known. that hasn’t made a single sale in the last 2-1/2 months so far.

 

[Done-it-again]

Unfortunately I agree.

I will say I know of a boat mfg, very well known. that hasn’t made a single sale in the last 2-1/2 months so far.

Are they still back logged for 2 yrs?

 

[Bpracing1127]

Are they still back logged for 2 yrs?

No, maybe about 9-12 months for now

 

[Englewood]

Not a lot. No way getting they are ever getting back to 2019 prices. I think these custom boat MFGs will be able to find 20-30 customers a year still.

Mass produced toons could see a drop like RVs and trailers.

This right here...

Custom boats are a whole different beast. The delta between new and used is huge. Massive. 3x in some cases.

A New Fundeck is 300k. An Used Magic is <100k.

VERY few people can afford a 300k boat.

Just like the housing market, people will not be selling a 100k Magic @ 4% to buy a 300k Eliminator @ 8%. Inventory is an issue.

(Not picking on Eliminator, just using them as a top-of-the-line example in todays market)

 

[COCA COLA COWBOY]

Just some food for thought from a Parker guy……..

I know living in Florida has screwed my thinking, but you guys are more interested in looks and top speed over luxury.

You want to impress others……… go into a tight anchorage and move your 25’ boat around with a bow thruster.

To hell with throwing out an anchor, I can assure you, the dash mounted windlass (power anchor) will be your new best friend.

Electronics? Is this a concern to any of you? Charts? Transducers for seeing bottom?

You guys realize you can load waypoints into your autopilot, and have your boat take you from Havasu Springs to Havasu City, all while only holding a handheld remote for course correction?

You guys with twins……… Joystick with GPS. Mic Drop

Would you like to anchor your boat in 3 seconds? 10 times faster than a windlass. In less than 10ft of water, you will love a powerpole. Sure they look dorky. But they are the cats meow. Especially a twin powerpole setup. Lock it in place.

Hardtops? Boy have these come a long way. Many have power, retractable shades. Just push a button. Built in speakers.

Where I live, you must have a head to maintain your wife’s dignity. If you have this……. Get the best. Full electric head, with holding tank, filled from fresh water tank.

On board, built in shower. You need a water tank for this. The one built in on my Worldcat is perfect.

I don’t think I have ever read a post on this site with somebody talking about their VHF Radio, Autopilot, Radar, Garmin, Trolling motor, lithium boat batteries, scuppers, Epirb, MMSI number, DSC, AIS, Etc

If I were to spend 250k on my Havasu boat, it would have no problem also going to Catalina too. May as well get the most bang for your buck? Ocean going Havasu Boat.

I should probably mention……. I left a bar earlier tonight where they had the Florida Panther Game. They beat Toronto for the 2nd time in Toronto. It was WILD. I might be a little intoxicated! Lol

Ugh, this just adds to me thinking I need to move to Florida. I have a contractor that moved there and is doing quite well....outdoor kitchens to the rich and famous....he calls me all the time telling me to get over there and about how good the boating is all year round!

 

[retaocleg]

all the stimulus along with the shutting down of supply is wreaking havoc........look out below.........too much money chasing too few goods....the hangover is going to kill everything, as planned

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

The market im looking at it Seems the high end / newer stuff is selling. There’s still a long wait if you order a performance boat new. Buddy even ordered a coach pontoon a few months ago and is still waiting for delivery.

I have noticed that boats like mine that are for sale (older performance boats) are sitting longer. I believe it’s due to the fact buyers of this type of boat are usually working class dudes. They’d need a loan or access to money since they don’t have it liquid. However, banks usually won’t loan on older boats over 10-15 years old and I think the BIG one is the interest rates are up and people can’t use the equity in their houses.

So, those that have access to funds to buy a 75-100k boat that’s over 15 years old is a very small market and getting smaller as time goes on.

Agreed with those statements. Though your Cig is super valued at that price point I think you are positioned exactly in that working class audience you described. However just continued patience will prevail.... she'll find her proper buyer in time.... it hasn't been very long and weather hasnt warmed up yet.

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

Nah, fuck all that. Lol

NOTHING will replace this for me.

View attachment 1226920

No pontoons for our Tankster!

 

[Orange Juice]

Not a lot. No way getting they are ever getting back to 2019 prices. I think these custom boat MFGs will be able to find 20-30 customers a year still.

Mass produced toons could see a drop like RVs and trailers.

Innovation.

 

[hallett21]

No, maybe about 9-12 months for now

It would be interesting to know if they have time to build a stock boat yet.

 

[C-Ya]

View attachment 1227075
Innovation.

I can’t lie…….. I would love to take that thing for a ride.

It does look like a disaster…….. waiting to happen.

I saw a flying wing chair in Acapulco. You tow it behind a boat, and 3 passengers glide approx 2’ off the water.

 

[Jhamilton4]

Yes. But I’m not here to steal business from RDP’s guy. Just providing info.

60 days ago 6.99 was possible. Each time the fed raises rates it gets higher and higher. I used to advertise that rates started at 6.99 but the last 45 days have changed that. I waited a month on my own purchase as we were busy and it cost me a whole point!

It’s hard to tell someone with an 800 score that they have to pay 8%+ but that is what it costs now. We don’t make any more money with higher rates.

I was getting 6.99 all day long in February. Not gonna happen now.

When you see “rates start at x%” that is for a new purchase + 800 score. Most dealers are quoting 10%+.

When mortgages are 6.5%+, recreational vehicles are gonna be much higher.

I will add to Scott's post that we (Hamilton Marine Finance) haven't been quoting rates online since February due to volatility with different lenders having different rate structures, advances, and Loan to Value requirements. You should still be able to find financing in the upper 7% range to mid-high 8% ranges with 760+ credit. Yes rates are higher right now, but you can also refinance a loan if and when rates do come back down again.

Unfortunately another problem that has hit the recreational lending industry are that several lenders have closed their portfolios for lending with the most recent being Flagstar bank and Essex Credit to follow soon in July. In regards to performance financing there are other sources but there are limitations as to what and how much they will finance. Flagstar bank was a great source for performance type collateral up to 15 years of age. Most lenders that do lend on performance type boats will only go back 10 years of age, we have a few that will go older but only on case by case basis with most requiring a minimum loan amount of $100K (HP collateral) on anything older than 2013 model year.

 

[FROGMAN524]

Anybody have any new news since 6 months ago pertaining to rates, prices, lending and such?

 

[Englewood]

Anybody have any new news since 6 months ago pertaining to rates, prices, lending and such?

Best available rate right now for 15/20 yr is right at 7.99.

 

[FROGMAN524]

Best available rate right now for 15/20 yr is right at 7.99.

Thanks.

 

[Jhamilton4]

Rates are still high but are expected to decrease by mid-June or July next year. Unfortunately, it is going to cost more to borrow right now. We will be offering refinances on all funded loans to our customers at no cost to the customer if and when rates do come down a bit.

 

[RiverDave]

I should not have sold my boat..

 

[spectras only]

I should not have sold my boat..

Which one?

 

[spectras only]

Used boats are generally pretty cheap now. This 343 Cobalt was $350K new. Many RDP'r would pay out of their back pocket for this.
$91K US

34 Cobalt - boats - by dealer - craigslist

The Cobalt 343 is a great high-performance luxury powerboat designed for enthusiasts who like speed and comfort. The owner is switching gears and buying more of a cruiser. The 496 Mer mag motors...

vancouver.craigslist.org

 

[spectras only]

This one is cheaper than some new DCB's Perfect blue water craft for those live on the coast.

2003 Viking Princess 65 sport cruiser - boats - by dealer - craigslist

MANY RECENT UPGRADES - 3 STATEROOMS PLUS CREW QUARTERS - CUSTOM HARDTOP FINANCING AVAILABLE Video: https://youtu.be/B9v5yzU8-O8?feature=shared Yachtworld Listing:...

vancouver.craigslist.org

 

[Englewood]

I should not have sold my boat..

I’ve heard of Preston making some pretty good deals lately, I’m sure yours would be even better…come back to the toon gang!

 

[Tank]

I predict we will never see 3% rates or anything close to that in our lifetime hear on out. Fed may lower 1/4 or 1/2 a percent. I think over next few years it (hopefully) gets down to 5%. That’s a reasonable spot that can manage the economy from both aspects of inflation and spending. But I don’t think that will happen for 5 years or so. If Trump gets elected probably happen quicker.

Point being, people waiting for interests rates to drastically drop will be dead before it happens.


And again, I see homes sitting longer now and prices slowly dropping. Things like open houses coming back. I see ram trucks giving rebates and deals on new trucks for the first time in years (presume others will follow) I see a lot of used RV’s and recreational vehicles hitting the market for less. And I see boats sitting longer and prices coming down depending on what yoiure looking at. For those in the 700-800 thousand plus market and up for boats are still buying. The under 300k market is sitting longer and dropping in price. And to me, that’s because the lower cost items are financed usually where the huge ticket toy items buyers have access to creative financing. Using their investments and interest earned to make payments or just simply have the cash although no rich people I know use their principle to by depreciating assets. They borrow against their assets and let the interest on their investments pay for the toys (use others money).

So there’s different levels of what’s sitting and what’s selling.

But big picture. I see things slowing. The real tell will be in March. It’s usual for things to slow down In winter. But pick back up after new year. When we get to March we’ll really know if we’re entering an economic slow down / recession or if people plow through and keep buying.

 

[GRADS]

15 years ago I said I'd never finance a boat again, but I will say this thread got me thinking.

 

[RiverDave]

Which one?

That pontoon we had.. it’s gonna be hard to replace anymore

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I predict we will never see 3% rates or anything close to that in our lifetime hear on out. Fed may lower 1/4 or 1/2 a percent. I think over next few years it (hopefully) gets down to 5%. That’s a reasonable spot that can manage the economy from both aspects of inflation and spending. But I don’t think that will happen for 5 years or so. If Trump gets elected probably happen quicker.

Point being, people waiting for interests rates to drastically drop will be dead before it happens.


And again, I see homes sitting longer now and prices slowly dropping. Things like open houses coming back. I see ram trucks giving rebates and deals on new trucks for the first time in years (presume others will follow) I see a lot of used RV’s and recreational vehicles hitting the market for less. And I see boats sitting longer and prices coming down depending on what yoiure looking at. For those in the 700-800 thousand plus market and up for boats are still buying. The under 300k market is sitting longer and dropping in price. And to me, that’s because the lower cost items are financed usually where the huge ticket toy items buyers have access to creative financing. Using their investments and interest earned to make payments or just simply have the cash although no rich people I know use their principle to by depreciating assets. They borrow against their assets and let the interest on their investments pay for the toys (use others money).

So there’s different levels of what’s sitting and what’s selling.

But big picture. I see things slowing. The real tell will be in March. It’s usual for things to slow down In winter. But pick back up after new year. When we get to March we’ll really know if we’re entering an economic slow down / recession or if people plow through and keep buying.

If the economy perks up, they aren't going to lower rates. 3% rates were a gift for a decade or so. Rates might get back to the 5s in another couple years, unless there is some black swan event, then that will accellerate.

4-5 months ago they said wait and see until fall.. Everyone is out of money, and no one will be out in the desert and Black Friday will prove the economy is done for. Now its already wait and see what happens next spring. Next spring will be like every springs. Boat prices are going to go up, as well housing prices.

Boating season was busy, the deserts have been busier than ever, and Black Friday was up 7.5 percent and last Friday was the biggest online shopping day ever recorded.

Things are normalizing, but people still have money to spend. We aren't even back to where were in 2019 in terms of discounting on most things.. and now the MSRPs are 30 % higher.

 

[Tank]

If the economy perks up, they aren't going to lower rates. 3% rates were a gift for a decade or so. Rates might get back to the 5s in another couple years, unless there is some black swan event, then that will accellerate.

4-5 months ago they said wait and see until fall.. Everyone is out of money, and no one will be out in the desert and Black Friday will prove the economy is done for. Now its already wait and see what happens next spring. Next spring will be like every springs. Boat prices are going to go up, as well housing prices.

Boating season was busy, the deserts have been busier than ever, and Black Friday was up 7.5 percent and last Friday was the biggest online shopping day ever recorded.

Things are normalizing, but people still have money to spend. We aren't even back to where were in 2019 in terms of discounting on most things.. and now the MSRPs are 30 % higher.

I love your unflinching optimism. truly.

I don’t think we’re gonna see a recession actually. I think people will keep spending and buying for the most part except I DO think it’s gonna slow down. Remember. We are seeing the highest credit card debt in history right now. Credit is king. That shits gonna come do at some point. And the problem with CC debt is it sneaks up slowly and buries you.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I love your unflinching optimism. truly.

I don’t think we’re gonna see a recession actually. I think people will keep spending and buying for the most part except I DO think it’s gonna slow down. Remember. We are seeing the highest credit card debt in history right now. Credit is king. That shits gonna come do at some point. And the problem with CC debt is it sneaks up slowly and buries you.

I'm a realist. Shit ain't gonna happen until we have lost a couple million jobs. We would need to be loosing jobs now to see any affect in March.

Yea toy, car and discretionary prices will and are softening. Clearly the economy is still digesting all the money injected into it. I am with you 100% that demand is softening.

I think next year is going to be a turbulent year. If they start lowering rates, there will be a land rush on housing.. and to a smaller degree toys assuming we don't start loosing 500K jobs a month for the next 6 months.

There is no real penalty for CC debt. You file BK, deal with that for a handful of years and the government will prop up the banks. We have seen that show before.

 

[Done-it-again]

Had dinner at Flemings on Saturday with the fam (needed a turkey break). Even though there was only a 20 min wait for a non rez. the place was packed. Not holiday gatherings either, I mean just regular dining. There were more baseballs caps being warn than at a ball park, how can i say it...."street people".

Anyways, there is still money out there and all walks of life are spending it.

So glad they brought back the pork chop. I can cook a steak at home...lol

 

[Englewood]

Had dinner at Flemings on Saturday with the fam (needed a turkey break). Even though there was only a 20 min wait for a non rez. the place was packed. Not holiday gatherings either, I mean just regular dining. There were more baseballs caps being warn than at a ball park, how can i say it...."street people".

Anyways, there is still money out there and all walks of life are spending it.

So glad they brought back the pork chop. I can cook a steak at home...lol

We went to our normal (very popular) Sushi restaurant on Black Friday. Every other table was empty at 6:30p .

This is a place that normally has an hour wait.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

We went to our normal (very popular) Sushi restaurant on Black Friday. Every other table was empty at 6:30p .

This is a place that normally has an hour wait.

But how many tables were full of street people?

 

[Done-it-again]

But how many tables were full of street people?

None. Must not have a palate for raw fish. Lol.

Guess I could have worded it differently. O’well, never been politically correct.