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Plane on a Treadmill.

beaverretriever

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Well, since I posted the original thread on HB, I thought I would put up (hopefully) the final thread on this subject.

I hope you guys are ready to watch the plane take off on Mythbusters, right now..... enjoy.:beer

Again, sorry for all the pain. :D

WOW, they just said this is the biggest myth ever in Mythbusters history. :eek:



Edit... right off the bat the treadmill is too short that they are using:(.... Maybe I should have said a conveyer belt that is long enough for the plane to take off.

LOL, it went right off of the end of the conveyer belt.... HMMMMM. Big suprise..:eek: NOT!

Damn, another commercial. I guess they are going to try it life size. :)
 

Racey

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Gawd i wish HB.com was still up so all of us that chose correctly could bask in the glory!!!!
 

Instigator

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[video=youtube;_HkH8GUqc1g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HkH8GUqc1g[/video]:D:beer:smackhead
 

sean

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i think the bugs gettin nuked was more interesting!
i was wrong on the plane dealio!
 

Moneypit

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It's all in the wording of the myth.

In the original hb thread, at least the one I read, it was never stated the plane moved forward.

On MB, the plane is moving forward while the treadmill moves backwards.



Two totally different scenarios.:smackhead

Nope, same situation. The majority of the naysayers said the plane would remain stationary because of the reverse direction of the belt. The "take off' group said the belt and wheels meant nothing and the plane would fly, and it does. Of course the plane has to move forward, with prop, or jet propulsion to fly. The treadmill spinning the tires means NOTHING.....Once and for all, the plane will fly. If there are any blind people posting here, PM me, I'll give you a second by second accounting of the experiment.......MP
 

Racey

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Suck on that baby!!!!!!
 

Racey

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It's all in the wording of the myth.

In the original hb thread, at least the one I read, it was never stated the plane moved forward.


If that was the case why even bother with the conveyor belt??
Can a plane take off if it is chained to the ground :hmm

You just mistakenly interpreted it that way:p:D
 

ROC

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Nope, same situation. The majority of the naysayers said the plane would remain stationary because of the reverse direction of the belt. The "take off' group said the belt and wheels meant nothing and the plane would fly, and it does. Of course the plane has to move forward, with prop, or jet propulsion to fly. The treadmill spinning the tires means NOTHING.....Once and for all, the plane will fly. If there are any blind people posting here, PM me, I'll give you a second by second accounting of the experiment.......MP

MP is correct. Forensic, sorry bro, looks as if you're reaching.

The original scenario was pretty clear........................

MythBusters shows......the plane takes off
 

John McGuinness

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The original myth was if the conveyor matched the same speed as the forward motion of the wheels, would it take off. Not some set speed of the conveyor. I am calling BS to this mythbuster episode.
In this test they left the conveyor at a set speed. Then they throttled up the plane. At that time the speed of the conveyor should have been increased to match the rotation of the wheels. The question is still un answered.
 

Ziggy

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The original myth was if the conveyor matched the same speed as the forward motion of the wheels, would it take off. Not some set speed of the conveyor. I am calling BS to this mythbuster episode.
In this test they left the conveyor at a set speed. Then they throttled up the plane. At that time the speed of the conveyor should have been increased to match the rotation of the wheels. The question is still un answered.

Nope, it read the forward speed of the plane, it never said squat about the wheel speed.
In actuality, the answer was in the question all along.
 

John McGuinness

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So, if the plane increased speed. They should have increase the speed of the conveyor. Im still calling bogus.
Does anyone have the original post?
 

Ziggy

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So, if the plane increased speed. They should have increase the speed of the conveyor. Im still calling bogus.
Does anyone have the original post?

They pulled the tarp at the speed the plane required for lift off....and then some from what they said.
.
Like Jaimie said, some people just can't fathom the fact.
.
As a side note, at first read I didn't think it would fly either, but physics are physics and my logic prevailed.
 

John McGuinness

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Did they pull the tarp at the same rate of increase as the forward increase in speed of the plane? exactly? I doubt it.
 

PropCop

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The original myth was if the conveyor matched the same speed as the forward motion of the wheels, would it take off. Not some set speed of the conveyor. I am calling BS to this mythbuster episode.
In this test they left the conveyor at a set speed. Then they throttled up the plane. At that time the speed of the conveyor should have been increased to match the rotation of the wheels. The question is still un answered.

Nope, it read the forward speed of the plane, it never said squat about the wheel speed.
In actuality, the answer was in the question all along.

Bingo! It all depends on what words are used. They have two totally different meanings, with two different outcomes. Thus the lingering debate. :smackhead

If I read Ziggy correctly, if the plane was moving forward at 30mph, the treadmill would be moving in the opposite direction at 30mph, which would make the wheel speed 60mph. But the plane would still move forward and gain lift.

In Johns scenario, the plane could not move forward because the ground under the wheels would be cancelling any forward movement of the plane.
 

ROC

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Did they pull the tarp at the same rate of increase as the forward increase in speed of the plane? exactly? I doubt it.




Funny.....no shit.........really.

You really don't get it?

Dude, you have to be one of the very few that still don't see the light. The freakin plane takes off.
 

BajaMike

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Did they pull the tarp at the same rate of increase as the forward increase in speed of the plane? exactly? I doubt it.


Wow…..some people sure are stubborn…..the speed of the treadmill has absolutely nothing to do with the plane taking off.

It is an AIRplane. The wheel speed and treadmill speed has nothing to do with it. The treadmill could be going 1000 times the speed of the plane, and it would still take off.

:hmm
 

Ziggy

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Did they pull the tarp at the same rate of increase as the forward increase in speed of the plane? exactly? I doubt it.
:smackhead I'm not even gonna keep trying......the freewheeling tires have no impact whatsoever....they could have pulled the tarp at 100mph and the plane still would fly.
 

John McGuinness

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Is that why they set the speed of the conveyor at the min airspeed for take off? They should have set the speed of the conveyor at the top speed of the plane.
 

Magic34

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Is that why they set the speed of the conveyor at the min airspeed for take off? They should have set the speed of the conveyor at the top speed of the plane.

But the plane was in the air by the end of the cones. Less than 100' for sure. The plane was not at the same point when it left the ground from where they started, but it was within 100' of where it started, at least that was the distance I figured by looking at the spacing of the cones.

I wish the plane would have barely moved and just lifted in the air but the way they were conducting this, the trap would have ripped if not perfectly moving at the same rate of speed.

I think it would have flown at that point as well. Since the plane need so little "runway" on the belt, it proved it to me.
 

John McGuinness

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The real plane taking off was hokey. Too many variables. I guarantee that guy didnt mash the throttle off the line. That tarp was ripping from just that guy running on it.
The remote controlled plane was a good experiment though. They should have hooked up the treadmill to a variac and controlled it that way. "Im setting it to run"? That is gay.
When the plane gassed it up, they should have increased the speed of the conveyor.
And what was the deal with the car analogy? If a car is standing still at "30mph" and then you step on the throttle, of course it will move forward.
The whole episode was dissapointing.
 

BajaMike

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The real plane taking off was hokey. Too many variables. I guarantee that guy didnt mash the throttle off the line. That tarp was ripping from just that guy running on it.
The remote controlled plane was a good experiment though. They should have hooked up the treadmill to a variac and controlled it that way. "Im setting it to run"? That is gay.
When the plane gassed it up, they should have increased the speed of the conveyor.
And what was the deal with the car analogy? If a car is standing still at "30mph" and then you step on the throttle, of course it will move forward.
The whole episode was dissapointing.


It didn't see the show.....but it sounds kind of hoaky. What's a "variac"?
 

Instigator

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In Johns scenario, the plane could not move forward because the ground under the wheels would be cancelling any forward movement of the plane.
Are you kidding me ? If the Plane didn't move forward, then the ground/conveyor wouldn,t move either ( remember the exactly matching part ). The plane had to move forward before anything else could happen, period. All of you nay sayers simply read something into the questions that was never there.:D
 

John McGuinness

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A variac is a variable transformer.
I am not saying the plane wouldnt fly. I am saying the test was not done properly.
I would have determined the top speed of the plane. Say 50mph. Set the tread mill at that speed. Hold the plane by the tail running at full throttle (thrust). Then cut it loose and see what happens.
 

PolarBearKing

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I watched it to and thought the test was flawed.

That wasn't a conveyor belt and since the weight of the plane was on the ground, not the "belt" I am not convinced.

Even the pilot didn't think his plane would fly.
 

steamin rice

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Bingo! It all depends on what words are used. They have two totally different meanings, with two different outcomes. Thus the lingering debate. :smackhead

If I read Ziggy correctly, if the plane was moving forward at 30mph, the treadmill would be moving in the opposite direction at 30mph, which would make the wheel speed 60mph. But the plane would still move forward and gain lift.

In Johns scenario, the plane could not move forward because the ground under the wheels would be cancelling any forward movement of the plane.


I think think this captures things the best - If the treadmill matches the forward speed of the plane, it will take off. I have seen the question worded where it says the treadmill will always match the wheel speed of the plane (not possible to implement in practice, but possible in theory). The wheelspeed of the plane must be faster than the speed of the treadmill for the plane to move forward and then take off.
 

Racey

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Are you kidding me ? If the Plane didn't move forward, then the ground/conveyor wouldn,t move either ( remember the exactly matching part ). The plane had to move forward before anything else could happen, period. All of you nay sayers simply read something into the questions that was never there.:D

Bingo

if they pulled the tarp 100mph or 30 It wouldn't make a huge difference either way, it had almost no impact on the plane's takeoff length the way they did it, for you theory to hold true the plane would have to at least showed a sign of struggle taking off.....

The number one force holding a plane from accellerating to take off IS NOT THE FRICTION CREATED BY IT'S WHEELS. It is DRAG CREATED BY THE THE ATMOSPHERE. When engineers design plane's it is in their best interest to minimize wheel drag. :smackhead
 

AZJD

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The original myth was if the conveyor matched the same speed as the forward motion of the wheels, would it take off. Not some set speed of the conveyor. I am calling BS to this mythbuster episode.
In this test they left the conveyor at a set speed. Then they throttled up the plane. At that time the speed of the conveyor should have been increased to match the rotation of the wheels. The question is still un answered.

I don't care if the damn conveyor went a million miles and hour! The plane still flies.......... Wheels just go faster.

I am not saying another thing about this. I hate this topic and I knew people would find a way to defeat the outcome.
 

AZJD

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But the plane was in the air by the end of the cones. Less than 100' for sure. The plane was not at the same point when it left the ground from where they started, but it was within 100' of where it started, at least that was the distance I figured by looking at the spacing of the cones.

I wish the plane would have barely moved and just lifted in the air but the way they were conducting this, the trap would have ripped if not perfectly moving at the same rate of speed.



I think it would have flown at that point as well. Since the plane need so little "runway" on the belt, it proved it to me.

The plane will need the same amount of runway with or with out the treadmill.
 

Ziggy

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I watched it to and thought the test was flawed.

That wasn't a conveyor belt and since the weight of the plane was on the ground, not the "belt" I am not convinced.

Even the pilot didn't think his plane would fly.
Apparently he doesn't know enough about his own hobbie and should go back to groundschool.:p
 

Moneypit

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I really don't want to fly with the pilot that doubted the plane would take off. That was the biggest shock of all when he said it wouldn't fly. To the people that knew all along it would fly, myself included, let me just say, "It is hard to soar with Eagles, when you're surrounded by Turkeys". To the deniers that feel the test was some how not in line with the original question because it failed to mention forward motion, THAT WAS THE QUESTION'S MYSTERY, the original riddle was based on general knowledge about what propels a plane. The treadmill was the gimmick, the gag, the hook.........

OK OK, how about this one, a plane crossing the Canadian/US border crashes right dead on the border, exactly 1/2 and 1/2, US and Canadian territories. The passengers are split 1/2 and 1/2 as well, US and Canadian citizens...... The question becomes, "In which country would you bury the survivors?"......MP
 

John McGuinness

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Thats why I asked if anyone had the original question. I didnt think to print it out and carry it in my wallet. Forward motion, wheel speed, normal take off speed. It all matters for conducting a realistic test.
AZ, I bet you will have at least one more thing to say on this subject. Oh, too late, you already did!
 

PropCop

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Are you kidding me ? If the Plane didn't move forward, then the ground/conveyor wouldn,t move either ( remember the exactly matching part ). The plane had to move forward before anything else could happen, period. All of you nay sayers simply read something into the questions that was never there.:D

You apparently didnt read my post thoroughly. It all has to do with how the question is worded, which WILL provide different outcomes. I do not have the original question or riddle. I agree the plane must move forward for anything to happen.
 

PropCop

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OK OK, how about this one, a plane crossing the Canadian/US border crashes right dead on the border, exactly 1/2 and 1/2, US and Canadian territories. The passengers are split 1/2 and 1/2 as well, US and Canadian citizens...... The question becomes, "In which country would you bury the survivors?"......MP

It really wouldnt matter which side I buried them on, since both countries have laws against murder and attempted murder. I'm not into going to prison, thank you very much :p:D:beer
 

TBI

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What a bunch of dipshits!


Who even needed to watch mythbusters to find out it would fly?




WAKE THE FUCK UP!
 

OCMerrill

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What a bunch of dipshits!


Who even needed to watch mythbusters to find out it would fly?




WAKE THE FUCK UP!

You know TBI I would suggest a ban on those that don't get it but shit you would hear the crickets chirping around here.:D

It's real scary to me when the pilot doesn't get it.

Everybody knows it's the lift over the wheels.:D:D
 

RiverDave

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And nobody will be getting in a plane with that pilot ever again.. LOL

RD
 

OCMerrill

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And nobody will be getting in a plane with that pilot ever again.. LOL

RD

I was watching the show and I am thinking WTF is that pilot serious?

During the debate thread here and on HB I think it was Overkill?? Who is a pilot and was struggling with the concept.

Basic first hour classroom stuff.
 

Instigator

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I was watching the show and I am thinking WTF is that pilot serious?

During the debate thread here and on HB I think it was Overkill?? Who is a pilot and was struggling with the concept.

Basic first hour classroom stuff.
That was Overkill flyin the plane.:D
 

WATERDOG

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That pilot should have his license pulled.
 

OCMerrill

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I hope like hell you meant wings and not wheels. :eek: The wheels still have nothing to go with lift. :D

No I meant to say wheels. It's the laws of gyration physics. Ansk any motorcross or freestyle jumper.:D

And yes I am kidding. :D
 

Instigator

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No I meant to say wheels. It's the laws of gyration physics. Ansk any motorcross or freestyle jumper.:D

And yes I am kidding. :D
That's Good. I heard you were a pretty fart smeller, I mean smart fellar.:D J/K
 
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