Speakers pop while using trim

[Cgrohe223]

FWIW mine only pops when letting OFF the trim switch.

Ya same with mine


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[rrrr]

FWIW mine only pops when letting OFF the trim switch.

That's when the coil's magnetic field collapses. Turning it on isn't the problem.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

That's when the coil's magnetic field collapses. Turning it on isn't the problem.

Thanks to this thread I'll probably fix it finally.

 

[Cgrohe223]

That's when the coil's magnetic field collapses. Turning it on isn't the problem.

Ya I watched a video about why it happens pretty cool never really knew that could happen.


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[rrrr]

Yes. I really believe a proper multi amp stereo install should be isolated with a capacitor. In addition to solving this issue, It would also solve a multitude of other problems, such as accidentally draining your batteries with your stereo in the cove. A proper install works with lower cost components as well as the high dollar ones without the need for ground loop isolators and diodes mounted to all of your electro magnetic components throughout the rest of the boat.
View attachment 873564

I can see the #2 wire and ginormous fuse connected to the capacitor which feeds the unfused #16 daisy chained to the logic power connections on the amps is a well thought out electrically sound installation. No bandaid going on there.

A one farad capacitor upstream of the amplifier logic power is silly. A fifty microfarad cap, which is 95% smaller, would absorb the voltage spike created by the trim pump.

Plus all that must be just a little bit more expensive than two $1.75 diodes, four 50¢ connectors and two pieces of heat shrink.

Ground loop isolators? What would those be used for? It's rather difficult to produce a ground loop in a fiberglass boat, but I guess it could happen. What other electromagnetic components are there in a boat besides the trim pump and starter solenoid?

This is all analogous to a large hole in a boat hull. I say the hole should be patched, you say a big bilge pump will work better.

 

[Cgrohe223]

It also has a Sony remote mounted on the dash just to the left of the steering hub

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[Cgrohe223]

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[Cgrohe223]

Where are these suppose to go


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[rrrr]

Where are these suppose to go


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I thought we went through this. Go look at my post that shows a photo how to build the part with ring connectors and heat shrink. Then look at the photo of the Mercruiser trim pump I posted and read the description of where to wire it.

 

[Cgrohe223]

From what I’m understanding both diodes go here (where the arrows are pointing) and to the ground correct? The blue and green wires are what activate the solenoids

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[Cgrohe223]

I thought we went through this. Go look at my post that shows a photo how to build the part with ring connectors and heat shrink. Then look at the photo of the Mercruiser trim pump I posted and read the description of where to wire it.

Oh ok I must have looked over that wrong so each wire that activates the solenoid has a diode going to the hot side of the solenoid so when the solenoid back feeds to the wires activating the solenoid it goes back into the hot side of the solenoid? Is that how this works.
Originally i thought the diodes would come off the ground side back into what activates the solenoid.


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[YeahYeah01]

View attachment 873792


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Where did you buy it at? I want to fix mine as well but dont want to wait a week for amazon.

 

[Cgrohe223]

Where did you buy it at? I want to fix mine as well but dont want to wait a week for amazon.

Guys at work had some so I said I’d give it a shot, where are you located maybe you can grab the extra one I have and try it?


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[YeahYeah01]

Guys at work had some so I said I’d give it a shot, where are you located maybe you can grab the extra one I have and try it?


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I'm in Apple valley so probably not to close to you. Appreciate it though!

 

[Cgrohe223]

I'm in Apple valley so probably not to close to you. Appreciate it though!

Little far from Rancho haha no problem, try amazon prime


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[YeahYeah01]

Little far from Rancho haha no problem, try amazon prime


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Yeah that's where I looked first about a week out since it's not an essential item. I'm going to call a couple audio places maybe they have them in stock.

 

[Cgrohe223]

Yeah that's where I looked first about a week out since it's not an essential item. I'm going to call a couple audio places maybe they have them in stock.

From what the tech guy said at work a lot of stereo places use those


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[H2_Whoa]

Thank you for posting the schematic.

The band side of the diode connects to the terminal of the relay that the green (or blue) striped wire connects to.

The other side of the diode connects to the black (grounded) terminal of the relay.

 

[YeahYeah01]

From what the tech guy said at work a lot of stereo places use those


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Sweet. Thanks man.

 

[Cgrohe223]

Thank you for posting the schematic.

The band side of the diode connects to the terminal of the relay that the green (or blue) striped wire connects to.

The other side of the diode connects to the black (grounded) terminal of the relay.

Ok ya that’s what I thought but I reread another post then I thought it was going to the thick red wire and the green or blue wire


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[H2_Whoa]

The ACS ones in post #33 by rrrr look great. Worth every penny to save the labor.

My first post in this thread also included a link to the bare diodes at Mouser Electronics.

 

[Cgrohe223]

The ACS ones in post #33 by rrrr look great. Worth every penny to save the labor.

My first post in this thread also included a link to the bare diodes at Mouser Electronics.

I have shrink and wring terminal connectors so I should be good to go just a matter of when I want to do it haha


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[Icky]

I can see the #2 wire and ginormous fuse connected to the capacitor which feeds the unfused #16 daisy chained to the logic power connections on the amps is a well thought out electrically sound installation. No bandaid going on there.

A one farad capacitor upstream of the amplifier logic power is silly. A fifty microfarad cap, which is 95% smaller, would absorb the voltage spike created by the trim pump.

Plus all that must be just a little bit more expensive than two $1.75 diodes, four 50¢ connectors and two pieces of heat shrink.

Ground loop isolators? What would those be used for? It's rather difficult to produce a ground loop in a fiberglass boat, but I guess it could happen. What other electromagnetic components are there in a boat besides the trim pump and starter solenoid?

This is all analogous to a large hole in a boat hull. I say the hole should be patched, you say a big bilge pump will work better.

I always thought that the caps were put in to keep the car/truck from shutting completely off when the bass hit, but that was a long time ago

 

[rrrr]

Oh ok I must have looked over that wrong so each wire that activates the solenoid has a diode going to the hot side of the solenoid so when the solenoid back feeds to the wires activating the solenoid it goes back into the hot side of the solenoid? Is that how this works.
Originally i thought the diodes would come off the ground side back into what activates the solenoid.


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I looked at the wiring diagram and realized I misremembered how the solenoids are powered. You're correct, the diode goes between the blue and green wires and ground.

 

[Cgrohe223]

I looked at the wiring diagram and realized I misremembered how the solenoids are powered. You're correct, the diode goes between the blue and green wires and ground.

Ok cool cause I watched a bunch of videos so thought I had it right but figured I’d ask


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[rrrr]

I always thought that the caps were put in to keep the car/truck from shutting completely off when the bass hit, but that was a long time ago

Right...I've never seen an amp wired the way it's done in that photo. The cap should be between B+ and the amplifier power connections. He's wired the amp power directly to B+, and installed the cap between B+ and the amplifier remote logic power.

This is how it's done.

 

[Shlbyntro]

I can see the #2 wire and ginormous fuse connected to the capacitor which feeds the unfused #16 daisy chained to the logic power connections on the amps is a well thought out electrically sound installation. No bandaid going on there.

A one farad capacitor upstream of the amplifier logic power is silly. A fifty microfarad cap, which is 95% smaller, would absorb the voltage spike created by the trim pump.

Plus all that must be just a little bit more expensive than two $1.75 diodes, four 50¢ connectors and two pieces of heat shrink.

Ground loop isolators? What would those be used for? It's rather difficult to produce a ground loop in a fiberglass boat, but I guess it could happen. What other electromagnetic components are there in a boat besides the trim pump and starter solenoid?

This is all analogous to a large hole in a boat hull. I say the hole should be patched, you say a big bilge pump will work better.

That particular capacitor [module] has an internal switch and is powered up by the "logic" wire from the head unit, just like the amps. I chose to fuse the capacitor because they fail too and a capacitor of that size with a 2gauge wire running to it has the potential to fail in a spectacular fashion. If you would like me to draw you a wiring diagram I will.

By your logic, though factually supported by the rules of DC electricity, it would have you potentially putting diodes on every electro magnet on the engine and boat. Start solenoid, secondary start solenoid, trim solenoids, fuel pump relay, ignition relay, trim tab solenoids, and so on...

I get your side of it, I really do. It's cheap, easy, fast. My point of view is why not just make it right?? Sure; you spend more time, It's a few more dollars for more parts, but why the hell not just do it and eliminate the "popping" problem as well as the potential for ALL the other problems associated with a high powered stereo sharing electrical circuits with the standard boat systems.

You say, "the hole should be patched." I say, "It should be patched, all internal obstructions moved out of the way and reinforced from the inside, and resprayed and blended from the outside so that it never happens again."

 

[Cgrohe223]

FIXED IT!!!! tested it with one on top but what I also noticed is the old owner put a secondary switch so if your under the hatch you can move the trim. But rather then sending power to the green or blue wire terminal to activate the relay he wired it directly to the power wire going to the trim motor which I don’t think it’s correct you’re relying on that that wire to power the pump motor correct? So in the picture you can see the ring thermal just sitting by the blue wire. Or could that have been the main reason for the back feeding issue? I will test another day on the wire that makes it go down by removing his wire that’s directly on pump motor

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[Shlbyntro]

FIXED IT!!!! tested it with one on top but what I also noticed is the old owner put a secondary switch so if your under the hatch you can move the trim. But rather then sending power to the green or blue wire terminal to activate the relay he wired it directly to the power wire going to the trim motor which I don’t think it’s correct you’re relying on that that wire to power the pump motor correct? So in the picture you can see the ring thermal just sitting by the blue wire. Or could that have been the main reason for the back feeding issue? I will test another day on the wire that makes it go down by removing his wire that’s directly on pump motor
View attachment 873943


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Though not correct, his wiring of the switch directly to the pump motor should not have done anything for better or worse regarding the back feed issue that's screwing with your stereo. If you would like to keep the switch, I'd recommend rewiring it to the smaller signal blue and green wires on either end of the solenoids.

 

[Cgrohe223]

Though not correct, his wiring of the switch directly to the pump motor should not have done anything for better or worse regarding the back feed issue that's screwing with your stereo. If you would like to keep the switch, I'd recommend rewiring it to the smaller signal blue and green wires on either end of the solenoids.

Ya I’m going to but no more popping going up


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[Cgrohe223]

Did a test of taking his secondary switch wire off the lower relay to see what it would do to the stereo, pop is still there but very little just a little snap sound. I will rewire the secondary trim switch the correct way and add the second diode once I pull it out next week and have a little more light. Thank you guys for pointing me in the correct direction [emoji1303]


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[H2_Whoa]

The problem with adding more capacitance (all amps have some built in) is that it will not eliminate spikes that can be induced into the signal (input) side of the amp through cables or the head unit etc.

The voltage spikes from a deactivated coil can exceed 100 volts which can easily affect unrelated wiring through inductance.

 

[Cgrohe223]

Could be going through the head unit as well who knows where the power is coming through could be feeding the head unit then sending it to the amps. That will be the next thing just for peace of mind


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[H2_Whoa]

I would also clarify for future readers that you connected to the blue (or green) wire terminals from the trim switch not the heavy blue/green wire terminal that is going to the pump.

 

[Cgrohe223]

For any other people looking for a possible remedy for stereo popping while using trim get yourself two diodes I used 6amp 100 volt diodes, one for trim up and one for trim down relay, wire in diode on the relay where you’re trim switch wire activates the solenoid with the stripe end from diode on the feed wire “smaller wires colored green or blue” and the other side to the small negative “black” terminal which is right next to it. I crimped on ring terminals on each end and shrink wrapped over the whole diode and put a black mark with sharpie on one side so that know which side is negative, in the picture the highlighted arrow points to the diode installed and location on my specific pump. The blue U shows you where it is jumped between each terminal on the solenoid and the black dot on the left of the U in my case is the negative, follow the same process for the other solenoid which is a small green wire. Hope this helps anyone else in the future with the same issue!
View attachment 873964

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[Cgrohe223]

Yeah that's where I looked first about a week out since it's not an essential item. I'm going to call a couple audio places maybe they have them in stock.

This worked for me hope it works in your case too


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[YeahYeah01]

This worked for me hope it works in your case too


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That's awesome. Definitely going to try it.

 

[rrrr]

The problem with adding more capacitance (all amps have some built in) is that it will not eliminate spikes that can be induced into the signal (input) side of the amp through cables or the head unit etc.

The voltage spikes from a deactivated coil can exceed 100 volts which can easily affect unrelated wiring through inductance.

Somewhere back in the posts I've made, I mentioned that inductance can affect adjacent wiring and systems, and that's why addressing the voltage spike at the source is better than adding capacitance to the stereo system. For example, the same spike that creates noise on an audio system could also cause an inductive spike on ECMs, Vessel View displays, navigation electronics, etc.

Are those systems adequately protected from that type of damage? I don't know. I just know from years of experience with earlier technology large data center UPS systems using TTL that ∆V/∆T snubbers on inductors are absolutely a requirement to prevent havoc to systems using precise DC control voltages.

 

[rrrr]

For any other people looking for a possible remedy for stereo popping while using trim get yourself two diodes I used 6amp 100 volt diodes, one for trim up and one for trim down relay, wire in diode on the relay where you’re trim switch wire activates the solenoid with the stripe end from diode on the feed wire “smaller wires colored green or blue” and the other side to the small negative “black” terminal which is right next to it. I crimped on ring terminals on each end and shrink wrapped over the whole diode and put a black mark with sharpie on one side so that know which side is negative, in the picture the highlighted arrow points to the diode installed and location on my specific pump. The blue U shows you where it is jumped between each terminal on the solenoid and the black dot on the left of the U in my case is the negative, follow the same process for the other solenoid which is a small green wire. Hope this helps anyone else in the future with the same issue!
View attachment 873964
View attachment 873962
View attachment 873963


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That's awesome, happy to hear it resolved the problem. It's an inexpensive fix too.

 

[Carlson-jet]

All this awesomeness of information aside. Please J hook the connections and solder. Crimping is fine to hold them in place until soldering.

 

[Cgrohe223]

All this awesomeness of information aside. Please J hook the connections and solder. Crimping is fine to hold them in place until soldering.

I normally solder everything and shrink but I was very bored and just wanted to test when I bring the boat out I’ll hit it with solder cause I don’t trust but connectors or anything crimps. I was anal enough to solder all the lights on the trailer at one time and head unit wires [emoji23]


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[H2_Whoa]

This thread is useless without boating related trim pic:

 

[socalrzr]

I would love to help, but I cant hear my radio when im on the gas...

 

[Cgrohe223]

I would love to help, but I cant hear my radio when im on the gas...

My little 454 isn’t very loud but with 4 6x9’s and 4 6.5 kicker speakers in a little boat you can still enjoy some music haha


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[LargeOrangeFont]

Sweet. I’ll have to try this with mine now!

 

[Cgrohe223]

Made this little drawing of each solenoid and a basic idea of how they should be wired up for future reference

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[H2_Whoa]

I thought that I could play down my nerdness by posting that picture but I think I ended up confirming it.

Cgrohe, please edit your picture to show that the band side of the diodes go to the trim switch terminals.

If installed backwards, you will let out the magic smoke that makes them work.

 

[Cgrohe223]

I thought that I could play down my nerdness by posting that picture but I think I ended up confirming it.

Cgrohe, please edit your picture to show that the band side of the diodes go to the trim switch terminals.

If installed backwards, you will let out the magic smoke that makes them work.

I put a little grey stripe on the black diode


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[LargeOrangeFont]

I put a little grey stripe on the black diode


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Ordered my diodes this morning.

 

[H2_Whoa]

I put a little grey stripe on the black diode


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Doh. Didn’t see that.
And now I have confirmed my eyesight is going...