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1979 Schiada RC, The Boss

lenmann

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After a solid couple of years searching, finding a few, missing deals on a couple, I finally acquired a Schiada River Cruiser. As noted in a thread sparked by a CL ad earlier this summer the boat is a little rough and hasn?t had a lot of love for some time.

http://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/showthread.php?136989-Criagslist-Find

As 2FF will testify, for sale ad claims stating ?clean, hardly used, great shape, and fast? are broad assertions subject to the interpretation of those making and hearing them. Regardless, due in part to a long standing desire to own one, a bit of patience, and a Castaic test drive, the Boss is mine.

My plan is to get the boat to a safe and reasonably reliable state of tune in time for the summer to see if I even like driving it. As part of hanging around RDP (really lurking) I am well aware of the Schiada project slippery slope so I am approaching this effort with the expectation that there will be much work to be done. The challenge will be trying to figure out what is good enough for now, what needs to be fixed and how nice do I want it to be when.

A little about me: Born and raised in SoCal, have been around boats my whole life growing up boating/camping at Havasu, partying as a teen at Crazy Horse and later as a young adult at Parker (I remember at least three versions of Sundance). I had a CP BBC jet in the early 80?s, my only real performance boat experience. All of my boats since having kids in the mid 80?s have been focused on pulling tubes, water skis, and most recently wake boards. That means a bunch of direct drive ski boats and v-drive roll bar boats (always operated responsibly and courteously, I think?) So, the kids are all grown and its time to go a little quicker and have a little different kind of fun now. I live in the Bay Area these days and we spend almost all of our boat time on lake Shasta.

History I have on ?The Boss?: Per the seller, he was the second owner having had the boat for 20+ years. Details of the acquisition were a little fuzzy as were details about the engine, trans, v-drive, hull, etc. etc. etc. He did recall that he bought the boat from the first registered owner, a who was active in the Needles Water Ski Club. (the trailer has a Needles Park Marina sticker on it) Purportedly the boat was one of two boats ordered and built by Schiada in late 1979 for a Canadian ski racer who backed out and the first owner then bought it. When I spoke to Lee at Schiada he remembered the boat, confirmed that it was based in Needles and thought he recalled it was owned by a Bob Hans (sp?). Remarkably, Lee remembers working on the boat in the early 80?s and that it was originally configured with a Rajay twin turbo BBC.

Current state: Original gel coat, original interior save for the back seat, hatch, and some carpet that was replaced when some floor rot was addressed.

Per the seller it?s powered by a 500 c.i. twin turbo BBC (exact bore/stroke combo unknown) that was rebuilt by Rick Snavely either 5, 7 or 9 years ago and barely used since. During the rebuild it was updated with Garrett turbos, Race Aero exhaust manifolds, RA intercooler, waste gates, Brodix heads, CP pistons, Carrillo rods, and a hydraulic roller cam. Unknown compression ratio, although the waste gates were set at 9 lbs. and it runs on pump gas ?if the air temp is cool?. It ran pretty good and clean on the test drive. No funny noises, vibrations, smoke and for the most part it all seemed to work as I expected it should.

The trans was refreshed when the motor was rebuilt. The v-drive appears to be untouched with the center plate indicating a 1.12 gear set. During the test drive it took on water like a sum-bitch. When I asked about it the owner explained that all v-drives leak. The bilge pump ran continuously with a stream strong like I wish I still had. I crawled around a little bit and saw the rudder stuffing box was leaking a ton. I figured it probably needed a little adjustment of the packing.

The boat sits on the competitive trailer it was originally sold with complete with fiberglass fenders, a bent up prop guard, newer tires, and in serviceable condition.

Here are some pics taken right after I brought her home in November.

the boss 001.jpg
the boss 003.jpg
the boss 029.jpg
the boss 045.jpg
the boss 057.jpg
the boss 084.jpg
the boss 085.jpg
the boss 092.jpg


Next installment: rigging measurements and a more detailed look in and around her. This will be my first build thread of any sort so bear with me and thanks in advance for answers to what I am certain will be a bunch of questions.

Len
 
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FrznJim

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Nice find. Your boat looks a lot like a 21 that I have in Alaska. I'm surprised that you have 1.12 gears in the v-drive. Mine has 1.29. Here's the speed calc for mine with a 17 pitch prop. Blue boat: 5400x1.29x17d5280d12x60x.85= 95 mph. With 1.12 gears the calc would yield 82 mph with a 17 pitch prop and 5400 rpm. This seems slow for a 500 cu in TT engine. You might want to check the gears by disconnecting the driveline and manually turn the driveline counting the revolutions versus the revolutions on the prop.

Here's a pic of my 21 engine when I first bought the boat
P1010266.jpg

Looks like you have a nice oil cooler. You might want to consider having it chromed, they look killer chromed.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not feeling the love with those 180 degree AN fittings. It seems like a lot of routing of water. Here's the setup on my purple Schiada with a couple of 90 degree elbows.
Picture 008.jpg

Interested in what kind of waste gates you have for the turbos. Could you post a pic of one of them?
 

lenmann

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Thanks guys, it should be a fun project.

FrznJim - can you walk me through the speed calc formula?

Blue boat: 5400x1.29x17d5280d12x60x.85= 95 mph.

It looks like RPM x gear ratio x ???? x efficiency factor? = target speed

I will manually check the v-drive gear set ratio this weekend, my assumption was based on the number stamped on the center plate.

The plumbing on the boat is a little cobbled up with a bunch of it having been altered when the engine was rebuilt I'm guessing. Here is a pic of the waste gates, they are Innovative Turbo branded units.

IMG_0192.jpg
 

aaronschiada

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Saw this boat on Craigslist. Def a project, but it is a Schiada. Congrats on the purchase and welcome to the club. Let the snowballing begin...hahaha
 

FrznJim

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Thanks guys, it should be a fun project.

FrznJim - can you walk me through the speed calc formula?

Blue boat: 5400x1.29x17d5280d12x60x.85= 95 mph.

It looks like RPM x gear ratio x ???? x efficiency factor? = target speed

I will manually check the v-drive gear set ratio this weekend, my assumption was based on the number stamped on the center plate.

The plumbing on the boat is a little cobbled up with a bunch of it having been altered when the engine was rebuilt I'm guessing. Here is a pic of the waste gates, they are Innovative Turbo branded units.]
The speed formula is rpm x percent overdrive x prop pitch (in inches) divided by 5280 (feet in a mile) divided by 12 (to get the prop pitch into feet) x 60 (minutes in an hour for rpm) x .85 (efficiency factor for slippage of the prop)

Those waste gates are nice. I have the Gentry turbo housings which have a hole in the housing with a hinged cover which is opened by a spring loaded Gentry actuator unit.

Which v-drive do you have? Split case or C500 maybe? Is your trans a T400?
 

025

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Congrats. Good looking colors. These things restoration can be a bit of a slippery slope. This scene comes to mind every time. ImageUploadedByTapatalk1452796930.014495.jpg
But they are so fun. Check out the aluminum fittings, they corrode (sp?) from the inside out. Check the prop shaft log good. Could be a lot of the leak. D21 makes one that don't leak and Casale too. I usually like to take the floor out when running them first, you can see a lot more. Check out the steering good. If it wasn't big power in '79 then 1.12 is probably right but could have been changed. You can check by putting it in neutral and spinning the prop shaft 10x then counting the driveline revolutions. Your v-drive location from transom to the mid plate will tell you a lot about the early history or the original intended purpose. 94" was a common std rig with no big power, 8.5* strut, strut 21" from the back. If the v-drives farther forward then the strut is flatter and strut barrel could be farther forward. That was more of a ski race deal, 80mph+. Good luck and have fun!
 

Keys22Howie

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Congrats on the buy. I actually went and looked at the boat as well. He was down to 35k at that point. I didn't make an offer because I didn't want to insult him and low ball because it needed some work and money. If you don't mind how much did you end up buying it for? The only reason I ask is because I'm still in the market and want to know what a good price range to shoot for. Thanks. If you want to PM the price that cool also, I know it's kinda private, but good for the RDP's to get a value of recently sold schiadas.
 

X Hoser

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And so begins the sickness and empty wallet. But worth every penny! :D
 

Sawtooth

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Congrats on the new to you boat, looks good! Looks like a great base with nice parts to start from, good luck I'm sure it will be fun.
 

lenmann

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In an effort to address the badly leaking rudder stuffing box I pulled the rudder and found there were no seals or packing of any kind in the box. The good news: it?s an 1 1/8? shaft steel cleaver rudder. The bad news: it?s badly worn at the shaft where it bore against the un-sealed, evidently never greased stuffing box. It measures almost .050? out of round. I contacted Kent Santos at Barber welding and ordered up a new steel cleaver, very close to the same size and shape as the original. It will be mated with a D21 Enterprises sealed bearing stuffing box and new upper bearing.

While crawling around under the boat I had the chance to throw a straight edge on it to check for hook (or rocker) at the transom and found none. Upon closer examination the bottom has been re-gelled from roughly the dash back to the transom. Is this what a ?blue printed? hull would look like? I had expected to find hook based on my research of other threads.

I also found this nice little surprise around the strut. Not sure what caused it, but it seems too pronounced to be just stress cracking of the gel coat. Could it be from engine/prop torque or a prop/strut strike? I cannot really see the interior side of the hull due to the oversize oil pan on the motor. Additionally I noticed the prop shaft is rubbing on the hole through the hull. I?m not sure if these are related or not. Neither condition seems normal or good. I am interested if anyone has any perspectives.

IMG_4361.jpg IMG_4365.jpg IMG_4367.jpg

My original plan was to just do a leak down test on the motor and if good leave the power train alone for this year. I may have to pull the motor to get a better look at this issue to determine if it is structural or not. If I pull the motor, maybe I should have it freshened up?uh oh, I feel myself slipping a little on this hillside.

Here are the basic rigging specs on my boat:
Engine: TT BBC 500 c.i.
Transmission: Turbo 400, has park and first gear. Sticker on housing says Scott Sharp Transmissions
V-drive: Casale split case. Center plate has 1.12 stamped on bottom edge. Have not been able to manually check gear ratio yet.
Propeller: Wilkes steel two blade 11 ? x 16
Prop shaft: 1? diameter
Cavitation plates: anodized aluminum, electrically driven with dash switch, 9 ?? long at the hull side, 12 ?? long at the keel
Transom to back of strut barrel: 18 ??
Strut barrel angle: 8.9 degrees measured from the barrel to the keel
Transom to motor plate: 17?
Transom to V-drive plate: 97?


Len
 

lenmann

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Hmm, I got some funky symbol conversions going on with my rigging specs.

Updated:

Here are the basic rigging specs on my boat:
Engine: TT BBC 500 c.i.
Transmission: Turbo 400, has park and first gear. Sticker on housing says Steve Sharp Transmissions
V-drive: Casale split case. Center plate has 1.12 stamped on bottom edge. Have not been able to manually check gear ratio yet.
Propeller: Wilkes steel two blade 11 1/2 x 16
Prop shaft: 1" diameter
Cavitation plates: anodized aluminum, electrically driven with dash switch, 9 1/2" long at the hull side, 12 1/2" long at the keel
Transom to back of strut barrel: 18 1/2"
Strut barrel angle: 8.9 degrees measured from the barrel to the keel
Transom to motor plate: 17"
Transom to V-drive plate: 97"
 

aaronschiada

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yes...pull it and have it gone through. at the very least, the internals are good, ring it, valve adjustment, new carbs, dyne tune it, and run it. then you can really look at whats going on with the hull. i would rewire and replumb it if it was me. why not? and you could do it yourself. just take pics and label everything.
 

lenmann

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Yeah, that looks like where i am headed on the motor. Of course when its out I may as well have the trans and v-drive looked at.

The misalignment between the strut and shaft hole has me puzzled. My understanding of the new boat rigging process is that the strut gets placed first and is used to drill the shaft hole through the hull and ultimately to determine the v-drive location. It makes me wonder if some repairs were done to the strut area of the hull creating a mis-alignment.

Has anyone seen this kind of thing before?
 

DEROOSTER

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From the pictures, it looks like the strut is "on top" of the hull. Mine is recessed into the hull, for a flush with the bottom fit. If that is the case, it may prove the theory of a repair??
 

FrznJim

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I would leak it down first. If you just need to freshen the heads, you don't need to pull the motor. If you want to pull the motor to inspect the bottom, that's another matter. Did you check the propshaft to make sure it's straight. Any vibration when getting the boat on plane?

The crack in the gelcoat is troubling. I like your idea to inspect the bottom from the inside. Also, not seeing a blast plate above the prop. If you do end up doing some work in the bottom around the strut, it's probably a good time to install a blast plate.
 

lenmann

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When I spin the prop there isn't any visible wobble in the shaft and the rubbed on shiny section is all around the shaft. I will throw a dial indicator on it this weekend to confirm.

The coupling is tight and as near as I can tell there isn't any radial play or looseness in the coupling end or strut bushings.

It didn't vibrate on acceleration or when planing.

I will go ahead and leak down the motor just to know what I have and then pull it to see what evil lies below.

Always an adventure these old boats.
 

aaronschiada

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When I spin the prop there isn't any visible wobble in the shaft and the rubbed on shiny section is all around the shaft. I will throw a dial indicator on it this weekend to confirm.

The coupling is tight and as near as I can tell there isn't any radial play or looseness in the coupling end or strut bushings.

It didn't vibrate on acceleration or when planing.

I will go ahead and leak down the motor just to know what I have and then pull it to see what evil lies below.

Always an adventure these old boats.
I would contact Lee and send him some pics. Ask him his opinion on the strut. Pulling the motor is no big deal. Mike @ QMP will dyno tune and adjust valves for prob under $1,500. Then you can see what's really going on. Spend the money now and make sure it's good and safe, rather then after its too late. Just my "safety first" opinion.
 

RiverDave

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In an effort to address the badly leaking rudder stuffing box I pulled the rudder and found there were no seals or packing of any kind in the box. The good news: it?s an 1 1/8? shaft steel cleaver rudder. The bad news: it?s badly worn at the shaft where it bore against the un-sealed, evidently never greased stuffing box. It measures almost .050? out of round. I contacted Kent Santos at Barber welding and ordered up a new steel cleaver, very close to the same size and shape as the original. It will be mated with a D21 Enterprises sealed bearing stuffing box and new upper bearing.

While crawling around under the boat I had the chance to throw a straight edge on it to check for hook (or rocker) at the transom and found none. Upon closer examination the bottom has been re-gelled from roughly the dash back to the transom. Is this what a ?blue printed? hull would look like? I had expected to find hook based on my research of other threads.

I also found this nice little surprise around the strut. Not sure what caused it, but it seems too pronounced to be just stress cracking of the gel coat. Could it be from engine/prop torque or a prop/strut strike? I cannot really see the interior side of the hull due to the oversize oil pan on the motor. Additionally I noticed the prop shaft is rubbing on the hole through the hull. I?m not sure if these are related or not. Neither condition seems normal or good. I am interested if anyone has any perspectives.

View attachment 459458 View attachment 459459 View attachment 459460

My original plan was to just do a leak down test on the motor and if good leave the power train alone for this year. I may have to pull the motor to get a better look at this issue to determine if it is structural or not. If I pull the motor, maybe I should have it freshened up?uh oh, I feel myself slipping a little on this hillside.

Here are the basic rigging specs on my boat:
Engine: TT BBC 500 c.i.
Transmission: Turbo 400, has park and first gear. Sticker on housing says Scott Sharp Transmissions
V-drive: Casale split case. Center plate has 1.12 stamped on bottom edge. Have not been able to manually check gear ratio yet.
Propeller: Wilkes steel two blade 11 ? x 16
Prop shaft: 1? diameter
Cavitation plates: anodized aluminum, electrically driven with dash switch, 9 ?? long at the hull side, 12 ?? long at the keel
Transom to back of strut barrel: 18 ??
Strut barrel angle: 8.9 degrees measured from the barrel to the keel
Transom to motor plate: 17?
Transom to V-drive plate: 97?


Len
Yeah, that looks like where i am headed on the motor. Of course when its out I may as well have the trans and v-drive looked at.

The misalignment between the strut and shaft hole has me puzzled. My understanding of the new boat rigging process is that the strut gets placed first and is used to drill the shaft hole through the hull and ultimately to determine the v-drive location. It makes me wonder if some repairs were done to the strut area of the hull creating a mis-alignment.

Has anyone seen this kind of thing before?

This boat I'm pretty sure hit a sandbar waaaayyy back when on Lake Mead.. It was repaired (not at Schiada) and the whip strut was positioned incorrectly in the boat. The boat wouldn't turn left when it was in that config so eventually it ended up back at Schiada.. Schiada put the whip strut back in the correct location, but did not do any of the glass or gel work around it. This is all second and third hand of course so take it for what it is... But if you want it direct give Stan at Schiada a call! I'm sure he'd be happy to help.

RD
 

AZRiverMatt

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Nice boat, looking good. Can't wait to see it all fine tuned.
 

lenmann

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After a long layoff to finish building a new home and shop I have had some time to get back to the Schiada so I will breath some life back into this thread.

A couple of updates to the specs on the boat:
Prop: 11-1/2 x 16 two blade Wilkes
V-drive gears: 1.33-ish based on measuring turns
Block: early 70?s 454 truck block

Next step is to pull the motor so I can get a look at the inside of the hull around the strut. I also ran a leak down test finding 8-22%, not the worst I have seen but not great either.

I pulled as much stuff off the motor as I could and found lots of corrosion/mineral build up on the cooling side.

IMG_5770.jpg IMG_5891.jpg

It doesn?t look like the intercoolers were doing a lot of intercooling?did find a vane from a long past impeller.

IMG_5801.jpg IMG_5802.jpg IMG_5809.jpg

My engine hoist didn?t quite have enough reach and the two-post lift I have planned for the shop isn?t in yet so I had to resort to a more agrarian approach to pulling the motor. Worked just fine.

IMG_5833.jpg IMG_5836.jpg

Now that the motor is out it will be headed to Joey and Ron Grose in Lodi to have it opened up and checked out.

Next up, getting the inside of the hull cleaned up and checked out.

Thanks for following along,

Len
 

Backlash

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Glad to see you "Back in the game!" Getting that motor pulled and checked out will give you peace of mind and a good starting point. Here comes the snowball! :D
 

aaronschiada

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snowball time, but you already knew that. are you in the Nacimiento area? good luck with the build. great gel colors.
 

lenmann

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Yeah, snow ball is right. How good is good enough or do we go all the way to great?

I am east of Redding, in a little cow town called Palo Cedro. Home lake is Shasta, about 25 minutes away.
 

aaronschiada

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Yeah, snow ball is right. How good is good enough or do we go all the way to great?

I am east of Redding, in a little cow town called Palo Cedro. Home lake is Shasta, about 25 minutes away.
oh wow..ok. way north. thats a good question...how good is good enough? well i guess that all depends on your budget. in my opinion there are some things you can go the less expensive route on, but then theres the things that you are gonna wanna spend extra money to have it done right. i just feel like anything mechanical and structural should be handled by the best. pay for it now, and you wont have to worry about it in the future.
 

lenmann

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Got things cleaned up a bit and here is what I can see so far.

There was a significant repair made around the strut at some point in history. RD suggested that the boat had hit a sand bar at Mead that damaged the strut and surrounding glass. The repair approach appears to follow the old adage ?if a little is good, more must be better?. The area around the strut is built up to what looks like 1 1/2 inches thick and there is some de-lamination at the base of the stringers. For reference the hull thickness at the v-drive water pick up is 1/2 inch thick. In the right light I can see stress cracks in the composite around the strut.

IMG_4361.jpg IMG_5896.jpg IMG_5902.jpg

Earlier in this thread I noted the prop shaft was shiny from rubbing on the shaft log hole. I was concerned that the strut may have become mis-aligned due to the stress cracking noted above. It looks like someone globbed some resin, filler or gel coat into the hole when one of the pick ups was filled in. Just to be sure I used a construction laser to confirm the strut was aligned properly with the hull, keel centerline and anything else I could measure side to side. Near as can tell it is where it should be.

IMG_4367.jpg IMG_5963.jpg

The front bulkhead is pretty wiped out. Rotted from the backside and cracked on both sides. As you can see in the pics the intermediate bulkhead and floor section was replaced at some point. It also looks like the floor under the bow was replaced as well. Why they didn?t also do the bulkhead is a mystery.

IMG_4436.jpg

The transom has some rot down low also. Its limited to the area around a couple of holes that were used to secure some adell clamp/hoses.

A couple of other things I noticed as I was tearing the boat apart:

The fuel tanks have been added on to by welding on a forward section. I measured the additions and came up with about 8 gallons of additional fuel in each tank in addition to the original 30 per the Imco label.

The v-drive has this little overflow? Tank attached. I don?t recall ever seeing one before. Anyone have any idea what or why it is?

IMG_5877.jpg

Next up: pull the floors and take a better look at the stringers. What I can see of them doesn't look too bad but with all the water damage elsewhere I am more than a little concerned.
 

aaronschiada

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Got things cleaned up a bit and here is what I can see so far.

There was a significant repair made around the strut at some point in history. RD suggested that the boat had hit a sand bar at Mead that damaged the strut and surrounding glass. The repair approach appears to follow the old adage ?if a little is good, more must be better?. The area around the strut is built up to what looks like 1 1/2 inches thick and there is some de-lamination at the base of the stringers. For reference the hull thickness at the v-drive water pick up is 1/2 inch thick. In the right light I can see stress cracks in the composite around the strut.

View attachment 518532 View attachment 518528 View attachment 518527

Earlier in this thread I noted the prop shaft was shiny from rubbing on the shaft log hole. I was concerned that the strut may have become mis-aligned due to the stress cracking noted above. It looks like someone globbed some resin, filler or gel coat into the hole when one of the pick ups was filled in. Just to be sure I used a construction laser to confirm the strut was aligned properly with the hull, keel centerline and anything else I could measure side to side. Near as can tell it is where it should be.

View attachment 518533 View attachment 518531

The front bulkhead is pretty wiped out. Rotted from the backside and cracked on both sides. As you can see in the pics the intermediate bulkhead and floor section was replaced at some point. It also looks like the floor under the bow was replaced as well. Why they didn?t also do the bulkhead is a mystery.

View attachment 518530

The transom has some rot down low also. Its limited to the area around a couple of holes that were used to secure some adell clamp/hoses.

A couple of other things I noticed as I was tearing the boat apart:

The fuel tanks have been added on to by welding on a forward section. I measured the additions and came up with about 8 gallons of additional fuel in each tank in addition to the original 30 per the Imco label.

The v-drive has this little overflow? Tank attached. I don?t recall ever seeing one before. Anyone have any idea what or why it is?

View attachment 518529

Next up: pull the floors and take a better look at the stringers. What I can see of them doesn't look too bad but with all the water damage elsewhere I am more than a little concerned.
man....this sucks. i feel for you on this thing. but i think its time to be honest with yourself....FULL rebuild/restructure of the hull. why cut any corners at this point. i would send these pics to Pat's Fiberglass and get his opinion. but its pretty safe to say youve got a big project on your hands. just try and foresee the end result....it helps, trust me. and whip out the check book.
 

lenmann

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I hear that, I guess I am over the shock of finding the evils that lurked under the carpet. I haven't found anything yet that can't be fixed and I have seen threads here and elsewhere that were worse, so there's that.

I have spoken to Don at Pats Fiberglass already and need to contact a couple of other shops. I would like to find someone a little closer to home if possible but plan to do what ever it takes to make the boat right again.
 

skifaster

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Love watching this thread as I will someday go through this whole process as well. My Dad's 1984 21RC is completely stripped, in need of a bunch of gel and glasswork. So someday (I hope) I'll be able to relate to the snowball when my winning lotto ticket finally comes in.
One thing that has been mentioned to me a couple of times is when doing all the glass work, keep in mind if you plan on using the same rigging. I know of another Schiada being redone that has all the rigging, had the inside all redone, stringers gel coated, etc. and now all the rigging doesn't line up properly. Stringers are now thicker after being gel coated. Obviously the rigging on these things is just yet another added expense.
Best of luck on the project, thanks for sharing. Love seeing this stuff.
 

Boat211

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I have spoken to Don at Pats Fiberglass already and need to contact a couple of other shops. I would like to find someone a little closer to home if possible but plan to do what ever it takes to make the boat right again.
Try Smooth As Glass. http://sagcustom.com/ They are in Riverbank. They do amazing work. One of the best in the business.
 

Boat211

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I have spoken to Don at Pats Fiberglass already and need to contact a couple of other shops. I would like to find someone a little closer to home if possible but plan to do what ever it takes to make the boat right again.
Try Smooth As Glass. http://sagcustom.com/ They are in Riverbank. They do amazing work. One of the best in the business.
 

lenmann

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Skifaster - That's great insight on the bilge glass work changing the rigging up. With all the work that needs to be done around the strut I am pretty sure I will be re-rigging to what I will call the modern standards for higher HP River Cruisers. Reduced strut angle, re-positioned strut, new shaft hole, move the motor forward a bit, etc.

Boat211 - Smooth as Glass is on the list. Ive heard nothing but good things about them.

Thanks for following along.
 

BamBam

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Skifaster - That's great insight on the bilge glass work changing the rigging up. With all the work that needs to be done around the strut I am pretty sure I will be re-rigging to what I will call the modern standards for higher HP River Cruisers. Reduced strut angle, re-positioned strut, new shaft hole, move the motor forward a bit, etc.

Boat211 - Smooth as Glass is on the list. Ive heard nothing but good things about them.

Thanks for following along.
Move the rudder back should be on the list too, if you're doing all the rest of it. There are two places for the internal rudder to be and yours is in the forward position. The rear position is preferred for the faster boats. It is nice to hear that you understand that some things need to change in the rigging to go faster. These boats are all custom and came out of the shop built for the power they had and the intended use by the customer. I like this boat, the colors are great and timeless. It will be well worth the effort in the end. I will certainly be following along.
 

lenmann

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BamBam - that is great information, I had not heard that before. Does the rudder move as back as far possible to the transom given the stuffing box flange size?

I also plan to add prop blast plates, longer cavitation plates, and strut bracing.
 

BamBam

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BamBam - that is great information, I had not heard that before. Does the rudder move as back as far possible to the transom given the stuffing box flange size?

I also plan to add prop blast plates, longer cavitation plates, and strut bracing.
Basically yes. The rudder now is set to have the tiller arm point to the back of the boat. The rear rudder placement has the tiller arm to the front (you need to flip the steering boxes too) and the rudder placement should center about the intersection of the inside front corners of the cav plates (1/4 cut each and a half moon cut out of the blast plate.) Does that make any sense the way I explained it? It will probably be somewhere close to 4" back from where it is now.
 

lenmann

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Time to cut the floors out and see what lurks beneath
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But first a little detour. I remember reading a post earlier this year discussing how Schiada fuel tanks were anchored in the hull. This boat has the vinyl coated fabricated steel tank straps that double as side rail supports, three per side. The bases were originally anchored with three stainless #12 wood screws into the 5/8 inch thick plywood floor. Over time some stripped out and were relocated, others got so bad an aluminum intermediate plate was added to provide better anchorage without replacing the damaged floor.
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Repairs to same made somewhere along the way
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The floors were not sealed or coated in resin on the underside. Regardless they were not rotted anywhere, but had some water staining and were pretty well dried out. 90% of the sheathing staples used to secure the floors to the stringers had rusted away and the floors were not bedded or bonded to the top of the stringers
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Stringers don?t look too bad, no evidence of rot that I can see, hear or feel.
The outboard stringers are not full length, rather ? length as they stop about 18 inches short of the bulkhead. I have seen photos of some RC's that were like this and others that are full length. Something I will ask Stan at Schiada about.
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Some delam in the stress areas along the strut repairs, this will all need to be ground out as part of the hull/strut re-repair anyway
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The starboard outer stringer was bedded in place off kilter a bit. I guess they didn?t use fixtures back in the 70?s?
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I was surprised to find all of the thru stringer hardware was zinc plated steel and not stainless steel. Some of the heads and nuts were corroded or rusty but the holes all appear to have been sealed with resin as the bolts had to be pounded out and there isn?t any rot or softness evident in any of them. This must have saved the stringers from the water that collected and rotted the plywood parts.

The intermediate bulkhead and floor had been repaired at some point but the main bulkhead was left in place with rot and was cracked on both sides. Once I had it out I discovered mushrooms growing on the backside. Again no sealing of any kind below floor level. Based on some of the repairs noted previously and the ?waterline? stain on the stringers it looks like the boat sat for some time, nose down, with water in the hull.
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The floor forward under the deck area looks to have been replaced as well and was put down on what look like the original 2x2 inch spacers that are junk too. So the forward floor needs to come out as well.
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Well,?the bad news is that all of the plywood in the boat needs to be replaced. The good news is that the stringers look pretty good, aside from the starboard outboard stringer being set at an angle. My plan is to leave the area between the outer and main stringers open in the engine bay and have floors with snap in carpet in the passenger areas so I will need to do something to address that outer stringer.

Thanks for following along and stay tuned.
 

Ouderkirk

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You're doing nice work on such a big job.

I have been where you are on other boats and this is where you see how the quality of Schiada's construction techniques saved you on the stringers.

The demo is always the easiest. Wait until you get down to the grinding/sanding. (start sarcasm) You're going to really enjoy that. (end sarcasm).

When I did this on another boat I used three things to get the work done. First tool was an air chisel with a variety of bits. That saved a fair amount of sanding/grinding. You want to put off grinding/sanding as long as possible.

When you get to the sanding/grinding....get a good respirator and mountains of filters. I used swim goggles as eye protection to keep the particulates out of my eyes, and had a vacuum cleaner attached to the belt sander. Get several Tyvek suits and put it on before you start sanding/grinding. Use flap wheels on the grinder not grinding disks.

The one thing I did not do, but should have,:smackhead was put up some sort of plastic walls taped to the floor and ceiling to isolate the work area from the rest of my garage. The fiberglass dust went everywhere and got on and into everything. It was an absolute mess that took me weeks to clean after I was done working. Toolboxes, lubricant bottles, light fixtures, tools windows, door locks, hinges, ....everything had to be cleaned by hand with water & detergent to get rid of the fiberglass particulate residue and then lubricated.

I look forward to further posts as you progress through this project.

:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup
 

lenmann

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Tell me more about the air chisel technique, I haven't heard of the approach before.
 

Ouderkirk

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Tell me more about the air chisel technique, I haven't heard of the approach before.
It started as I was using a flap wheel on a grinder and we getting covered in dust and hating life. I had a air chisel, and decided to give it a try.
In total desperation, I dragged out my air chisel and gave it a whirl. The key is to get it under one of the layers in the lamination. Once you've got it, you can walk it right up the line.

In the picture this is where I competed demolition using the air chisel and occasionally a flap wheel. If you spend some time with a pointed tip to get underneath one of the layers, you can take a flat blade and just walk it up the line. The beauty of it, is that is only takes that layer. The downside is you have to be careful at intersections where the lamination intersects and are interlaced. But you will know exactly what your getting to as you lift the layer. It will be self evident.

The boat in the picture is a 1985 Glastron CVX-16 that I restored a few years ago as a favor to a friend who had fallen on hard times. Saved buckets of time, and I was able to discern what I wanted to lift. If I needed to end the line, I would take the flap wheel and thin the end. and drive right to it and pop it off. The Glastron was an interesting project, and you could see where they cut corners to save time. I had maybe 16 hours onto the demolition to get the boat to the state it's in below.



In your project you could easily lift the layers in repair area with the air chisel. One at a time, maybe two at a time. And it will come up in complete sheets if you work the chisel side to side. Drive it up, put a screwdriver under it to hold it up, drive the chisle down the edge to get the entire edge up and then just work it in. You want to make sure that you don't pin the chisel under the layers where it may be hard to get out. Use the screwdrivers to hold the layers up as you remove them. I ran it at 125 PSI full flow from my compressor.

Start at the arrows and work it forward. Rinse ad repeat. Work it up the sides where the floor was glassed into the sides. Once you start using it you will see how easy it is and wonder why you hadn't thought of it yourself.

strut.jpg
 

lenmann

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Wow, I can’t believe it’s been 3+ years since I updated this thread. Not that I haven’t been working on it, but I will admit effort applied and progress has been limited. I’ve had a couple of other boat and car related projects that are finally done and I can get back to the Schiada.


Back to the hull repairs. As noted perviously a previous owner had done some questionable repairs around the strut. As you can wee in the pics there was plenty of CSM layered up to provide reinforcement for the over application of bondo on the waterside of the repair.
The air chisel Pro-Tip from @Ouderkirk worked great. As you can see it looks like there was a pretty substantial "oil down" event at some point as well.

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Got it all ground out and a couple of layers of 1708 down to start rebuilding the damaged area, the shaft hole, and the water pick-up holes. Felt good to be adding material instead of removing!

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Stay tuned, lots more updates coming.
 

Ouderkirk

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Lenman this looks great !!

I am glad the air chisel worked well for you as it did for me.

Are going west epoxy or vinylester?
 

lenmann

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All Vinyl Ester. I had considered epoxy because of the longer working time but issues related to gel coat adhesion pushed me back to ester based resin. Working solo, there have been a number of occasions that additional working time would have been very helpful...
 

lenmann

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The inboard stringers had some delam near the floor so I stripped the glass off and fortunately they looked really good with no rot. The original outboard stringers were not full length and the stbd one was a originally set out of plumb so I replaced them with full length vertical grain douglas fir. I plugged all of old the bolt holes, re-glassed all the stringers, filled the strakes, and added two layers of 1708 to the hull to add some strength to the 40 year old hull.

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jstnoc

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The inboard stringers had some delam near the floor so I stripped the glass off and fortunately they looked really good with no rot. The original outboard stringers were not full length and the stbd one was a originally set out of plumb so I replaced them with full length vertical grain douglas fir. I plugged all of old the bolt holes, re-glassed all the stringers, filled the strakes, and added two layers of 1708 to the hull to add some strength to the 40 year old hull.

View attachment 831650 View attachment 831651 View attachment 831652 View attachment 831653 View attachment 831654

View attachment 831658
Want to do my 21 next ;-)



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

lenmann

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Hah! I'm 4 years into this one and really not even close to being done.

Just hoping to have enough spark left to enjoy it when it is!
 
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