Ahhh, this is why Apache Powerboats are held in such high regard!

[RiverDave]

Nobody's mentioned Fountain...

For usage like that, nobody will.. Lol

 

[ductape1000]

Nobody's mentioned Fountain...

And in your professional opinion those would be.......?

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The original question was posed by a Fountain owner. ????

Not sure if he would even include them by asking.

 

[dancudmore]

Nobody's mentioned Fountain...

For usage like that, nobody will.. Lol

The original question was posed by a Fountain owner. ????

Not sure if he would even include them by asking.

Exactly, different boat for different purpose...
Power for power, the Fountain is faster...and the Fountain will NOT run like the Apache in the snot.

 

[spectras only]

Exactly, different boat for different purpose...
Power for power, the Fountain is faster...and the Fountain will NOT run like the Apache in the snot.

Once you're up in a 47'Fountain, they're pretty good in the snot.
My buddy's 35' would beat my kidneys to pulp in 6 footers.

This one would not !

 

[Tank]

That 43' Eliminator Eagle probably would as well, old Scarab or Larry Smith hull?

I don't know about that. I would run a true old school Larry Smith Scarab from the 80's like that but I've spent a lot of time on a 38 Wellcraft Scrarab (Larry Smith mold) and I don't think it would take kindly to pounding like that. Wellcraft builds a nice boat, but it's still a production boat. I really like Eliminator and think they build a great boat and that 43 is really nice, matter of fact, I'd own one in a heart beat but I don't think it would hold up to pounding like that.

 

[Tank]

Once you're up in a 47'Fountain, they're pretty good in the snot.
My buddy's 35' would beat my kidneys to pulp in 6 footers.

Yea, but then you're just talking about simple mass. The 47 is heavy, the 47 is long. Long and heavy will take a beating better. But I wouldn't launch any Fountain off a 10' wave like Yves was doing in Razz in the video posted here. Fountains a fast hull, no doubt about it and they're nice boats. I wouldn't want to be in one when you're aired out repeatidly 8-10' up off the water at 80+ mph!

 

[pronstar]

For a boat manufacturer that has seen its share of drama - seems you can't bring the name Apache up with out an argument in most boating circles - and hasn't been built by the original company (Ben Kramer/Bob Saccenti Apache) since the early 90's when Kramer was thrown in prison....But god dayum, you gotta appreciate the overwhelming superior quality of these boats that punish the water, rather than be punished by it!

How did McManus work into the equation?
Did he come along later?

 

[spectras only]

I have punished the crap out of my Top Gun though. Took it out in true 12' seas and have the photos to prove it.

Tank, what was the reason you sold your TG,if you don't mind me asking?
I'd love to have a 42 Tiger or even a smaller 31 Bullet.

 

[Member: 71]

Question:

Tank, what kind of drives were on RAZZ back in the 90's?

 

[Tank]

How did McManus work into the equation?
Did he come along later?

He "ran" Apache for a long time. During the feds siezure of Apache and the throwing Kramer into prison, he was giving conservatorship over the business and eventually ended up with the molds and started building McManus Apache. He still does as a matter of fact, and they are still bad azz!

 

[Tank]

Question:

Tank, what kind of drives were on RAZZ back in the 90's?

Pretty Sure they are Mercury Speed Master #3A's (same drive I had on the Cig). Here's another video that gives a lot of info on this particular Apache. It was for sale for about a year and was traded on the 50' Skater "Avatar" that was "Flight Club" before that.

[video=youtube;CRayu3RSOrM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRayu3RSOrM[/video]

 

[Outdrive1]

How did McManus work into the equation?
Did he come along later?

There's are weeks of reading on OSO over the drama about Apache and the different company owners.

 

[Tank]

As a testimant to how f*cking narly these things were built....

This is why it can take a beating like that and keep going!

 

[HPBoats83]

The original question was posed by a Fountain owner. ????

Not sure if he would even include them by asking.

Ok, I'll say it, FOUNTAIN! My 29 is pretty solid but honestly I don't know how the Fountain brand would hold up. I believe the "production boats" would be "ok" for a while; however, if you had one built for racing that would be a different story. One reason I say that is Fountain does a lot of racing in P1 in Europe and that water is pretty rough out there and they are usually wining and you don't hear about them coming apart.

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[Tank]

Tank, what was the reason you sold your TG,if you don't mind me asking?
I'd love to have a 42 Tiger or even a smaller 31 Bullet.

Sold the Gun because when my son was born we only used it 8 times in two years and it aint cheap to even let them sit, let alone use them!

We're going to buy something else summer after this one. Maybe a Gladiator or a Cafe Racer...Or might get a Cafe Open CC.

I've spent a lot of time on a Tiger and they are f*ckin' bad ass. But to do a straight bottom Tiger the way it was meant too be, it'll need 6's and big blower motors!

We've launched this bad boy a few times off the sets coming around the Ventura point where you were counting the seconds before we landed...matter of fact, we cracked the bell housing on #6's launching it so hard!

Cigarette can definately handle the pounding..Couple pics of us launching ours in the big blue.

 

[Tank]

Ok, I'll say it, FOUNTAIN! My 29 is pretty solid but honestly I don't know how the Fountain brand would hold up. I believe the "production boats" would be "ok" for a while; however, if you had one built for racing that would be a different story. One reason I say that is Fountain does a lot of racing in P1 in Europe and that water is pretty rough out there and they are usually wining and you don't hear about them coming apart.

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Agreed....Fountain race boats are a completely different bread than the production boats.

 

[Member: 71]

Pretty Sure they are Mercury Speed Master #3A's (same drive I had on the Cig). Here's another video that gives a lot of info on this particular Apache. It was for sale for about a year and was traded on the 50' Skater "Avatar" that was "Flight Club" before that.

Razz - 41' Apache Powerboat For Sale (Shorter Video) - YouTube

Thanks. Pretty amazing how those SpeedMasters took all that abuse back in the day.
Sure doesn't look cheap.:thumbsup

 

[HPBoats83]

I definately would like to see the 39' Lavey with 700's run in that. I think it would do pretty good based off of runing the 2750 and 29'.

 

[lavey jr]

Shocker I know.. Lol

How do you like that Lavey 39 EVO...?

 

[RiverDave]

How do you like that Lavey 39 EVO...?

The 39 EVO is a bad ass boat no doubt.. But you can't stand up in it, so you would be in a wheel chair by the 2nd landing.. LOL Plus you would have to ditch the cabin door and every other amenity in the boat to do the things they were doing in that video.

No question that the hull itself can take the beating though. Lavey's are built Ford Tough and everything is through bolted right down to the stern light.

RD

 

[ChiliPepperGarage]

I don't think any of the newer boats are built as solid as the 70's/80's/early 90's boats. With the competition for faster speeds, the layups are lighter.

My old 1973 Cigarette was built like a tank. Sure, you need a ton of power to get them to go but in big water nobody is going real fast anyway.

I'm pretty sure my next boat is going to be a straight hull Top Gun. For me, Tank's old boat would have been the perfect boat. I have found that I get way more enjoyment from running hard in big water than running really fast in mild water.

Tank, didn't you used to have a signature line, something about, it's not how fast you can run but how fast you can go in big water?

When the water is flat lot's of boats can go fast but there is nothing better than watching all those guys slow down when it gets big and you just keep hammering on. If you have never been in a solid hull boat in the rough it is something you have to experience.

There is nothing like the thrill of seeing nothing but water all around you as you go into a hole and then fly out the other side. It is both scary as hell and an adrenaline rush at the same time!:thumbsup

 

[HPBoats83]

At what point does mass/weight become triumphed by new materials, construction techniques, and designs? Kind of like the technology of the cat's (Mystic)?

 

[ChiliPepperGarage]

Well, I think it already has. The market has changed and the price of boats are so high now that the big $ buyers want speed bragging rights so lighter layups, twin steps, carbon fiber, kevlar, etc.

Wave crushing is not such a priority anymore. Also, offshore racing has changed from long distance races to running laps and the cats are now the fast boats.

My experience is limited and I've never ridden in a big Skater or MTI or other cat in big water so I don't know how they feel but I imagine they are using lighter layups as well for extra speed.

 

[plaster dave]

I don't think any of the newer boats are built as solid as the 70's/80's/early 90's boats. With the competition for faster speeds, the layups are lighter.

My old 1973 Cigarette was built like a tank. Sure, you need a ton of power to get them to go but in big water nobody is going real fast anyway.

I'm pretty sure my next boat is going to be a straight hull Top Gun. For me, Tank's old boat would have been the perfect boat. I have found that I get way more enjoyment from running hard in big water than running really fast in mild water.

Tank, didn't you used to have a signature line, something about, it's not how fast you can run but how fast you can go in big water?

When the water is flat lot's of boats can go fast but there is nothing better than watching all those guys slow down when it gets big and you just keep hammering on. If you have never been in a solid hull boat in the rough it is something you have to experience.

There is nothing like the thrill of seeing nothing but water all around you as you go into a hole and then fly out the other side. It is both scary as hell and an adrenaline rush at the same time!:thumbsup

Why is non stepped better for big water.

 

[spectras only]

I'd like to see any of these high end boats running through the Columbia sand bar like this yacht without taking on water:skull

 

[plaster dave]

I'd like to see any of these high end boats running through the Columbia sand bar like this yacht without taking on water:skull

I would never want to go boating in that anyways.

 

[hallett21]

did they make it lol?

 

[spectras only]

Yeah, they made it other than George C Scott who was on the yacht broke some ribs:skull

 

[AZJD]

Wow. Incredible. Not the beat selling aid but awesome footage. Can't do that in a 40' DCB


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[RiverDave]

I'd like to see any of these high end boats running through the Columbia sand bar like this yacht without taking on water:skull

Looks like perfect water for a 21 Schiada.. LOL (seriously, time it out and no worries!)

Wow. Incredible. Not the beat selling aid but awesome footage. Can't do that in a 40' DCB


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DCB lays up some of the best hulls in the industry. Don't let the center pod fool you, they can take a pounding and still come out the other side with no cracks. That being said, they aren't made for the kind of beating the video showed.. Most boats aren't made for that.

RD

 

[ChiliPepperGarage]

Why is non stepped better for big water.

It's not that steps are bad for big water, it's that stepped hulls were relatively new for most boats and come with the lighter layups for more speed.

The older straight hull boats were heavier and more solid (IMHO) based on my limited experience. Like I said, my next boat is going to be an older straight hull Gun or 38 flat deck for a couple reasons. They are very solid and heavy so you get that wave crushing ability and they are cheap (like me!) so I can afford to buy an old one and rebuild it.

 

[AZJD]

Looks like perfect water for a 21 Schiada.. LOL (seriously, time it out and no worries!)



DCB lays up some of the best hulls in the industry. Don't let the center pod fool you, they can take a pounding and still come out the other side with no cracks. That being said, they aren't made for the kind of beating the video showed.. Most boats aren't made for that.

RD

I was referring to the part where you'd have to be out of your mind to take your million dollar DCB out and hammer on it

I've always loved the Apache. If you watch the boat run it just seems so balanced. I see video all the time of boats trying to run fast and failing due to kiting or nose diving. Fun to watch the Apache run. I have a buddy with a 47' and he loves it. Runs it on the big cold lakes in Chicago area.

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

The apache at islander marine is a beast, I cant even imagine what the thing must weigh.

 

[Tank]

The topic always turns to new vs old when talking about Apache. I don't think it's an apples to apples coparison.

Apache's were purpose built for doing just what you see in that video. Look at the photo I posted of the "cabin" area. Shows you that thing is solidly (over) built to take a beating!! That was Apaches thing and they were built back in a day when racing offshore was all about racing in big water. Every Apache was built like a race boat. You'd have to compare this style of running to other "race boats" because race boats are over built to take a beating.

There's no doubt boats today are built "better". The new build materials and layups (vaccum bagging, Epoxy, etc) are superior to the old builds. Epoxy lets you build just as strong of a boat but weighs less. However, the draw back is that Epoxy is "rigid" and rides more solid (less flex). Doesn't mean you can't beat the sh!t out of it, it just means your body is going to absorb more shock than a conventional built (fiberglass) boat.

Outerlimits, Mystic and Skater are all doing crazy things with epoxy.

When you ask the question, "what new built boats could do what is shown in that video?" The real answer still is..."none". Because I've yet to see a video in the past 15 years of a "new" boat running like that! Meaning, just some private owner running his boat; no race, no boat test, just out for some fun.

Apaches are icons in the industry for a reason. The way they were built and the videos showing them getting beaten like they owe money to the mob are what makes them legendary. And that legend comes with a price tag. Go look and see how much these boats are still commanding. 100-600k for 20-25 year old boats!!

 

[Tank]

The apache at islander marine is a beast, I cant even imagine what the thing must weigh.

My Cig weighed 11k dry. That Apache weighs more...A lot more.