RDP Braintrust needed "Cant get titles on a purchase"

[manxman]

So, I normally vet my purchases pretty good, but not sure what to do next.
I bought a pair of seadoos on a trailer for a good price. One was good and the other had engine problems. I was aware of the problems and willing to risk the purchase because I knew I could fix the problem and still be able to break even or be ahead on the value. The guy I bought them from said there was a loan that needed to be payed off, but would take a few weeks to get the title. I was okay with this, because it would give me a bit of time to fix what was broken. I held back $500 from the purchase and said i would pay when he produced the paperwork. I proceeded to spend money and fix the seadoo. It needed a motor rebuild to the tune of $3k. I knew this and accepted the risk. I cleaned both up and fixed up the trailer. They have current registration and are ready to ride.
Turns out, he didn't own them. He purchased them from the original owner, with an agreement to make payments till the loan was paid, then figured out that the broken one was worse than he could handle, so he quickly relisted them to sell and played dumb. When I got them, i found paperwork with the original owners info on it and was able to contact him. He owes more than they were worth. He only received part of the money from the other guy. He is still owed about $2400 towards the original purchase of the seadoo's.
The original owner has assured me that he will pay off the loan and eventually get me the titles, but it has already been a few months and I'm getting impatient. I have been in contact with the person I gave money to. He started to ghost me, but I was smart enough to take a picture of his ID and was able to track him down thru the internet. He won't talk to me, but he has slowly responded to texts. I pretty much told him that what he did was fraud and i wanted him to make me whole and pay for the repairs. He is back to playing hard to get. I have previous addresses, email addresses, and even found out were his parents live ($28 on the internet gets you allot of info)

What should i do?
Wait out the titles?
Sue the guy that sold them to me?
Part them out?
Not sure at this point

 

[Ace in the Hole]

So, I normally vet my purchases pretty good, but not sure what to do next.
I bought a pair of seadoos on a trailer for a good price. One was good and the other had engine problems. I was aware of the problems and willing to risk the purchase because I knew I could fix the problem and still be able to break even or be ahead on the value. The guy I bought them from said there was a loan that needed to be payed off, but would take a few weeks to get the title. I was okay with this, because it would give me a bit of time to fix what was broken. I held back $500 from the purchase and said i would pay when he produced the paperwork. I proceeded to spend money and fix the seadoo. It needed a motor rebuild to the tune of $3k. I knew this and accepted the risk. I cleaned both up and fixed up the trailer. They have current registration and are ready to ride.
Turns out, he didn't own them. He purchased them from the original owner, with an agreement to make payments till the loan was paid, then figured out that the broken one was worse than he could handle, so he quickly relisted them to sell and played dumb. When I got them, i found paperwork with the original owners info on it and was able to contact him. He owes more than they were worth. He only received part of the money from the other guy. He is still owed about $2400 towards the original purchase of the seadoo's.
The original owner has assured me that he will pay off the loan and eventually get me the titles, but it has already been a few months and I'm getting impatient. I have been in contact with the person I gave money to. He started to ghost me, but I was smart enough to take a picture of his ID and was able to track him down thru the internet. He won't talk to me, but he has slowly responded to texts. I pretty much told him that what he did was fraud and i wanted him to make me whole and pay for the repairs. He is back to playing hard to get. I have previous addresses, email addresses, and even found out were his parents live ($28 on the internet gets you allot of info)

What should i do?
Wait out the titles?
Sue the guy that sold them to me?
Part them out?
Not sure at this point

Sounds a lot like skipping title and fraud but Im not a lawyer. Getting blood out of a turnip is hard. Can you get proof of what is owed to bank and if the payments are being made?

 

[CoolCruzin]

You lost.
Tell him he has one day then
Report that guy -to the law . it is fraud .
File a small clams law suite .
But still not going to get your money back .

Clean way - part them out and walk away but you might get in trouble there .

 

[LazyLavey]

Damn....I need glasses....

Thought the title said "Titties"

 

[manxman]

Sounds a lot like skipping title and fraud but Im not a lawyer. Getting blood out of a turnip is hard. Can you get proof of what is owed to bank and if the payments are being made?

The only proof i have is my communication with the original owner. The loan is thru sheffield and because i'm not the owner, they won't tell me anything.
I will ask for proof. The guy even offered to put personal insurance on them, but not sure if it really matters at this point.

 

[manxman]

You lost.
Tell him he has one day then
Report that guy -to the law . it is fraud .
File a small clams law suite .
But still not going to get your money back .

Clean way - part them out and walk away but you might get in trouble there .

Thought about that, and I agree, not sure what the end result would be for me. I know it would suck for the guy that holds the title. They are behind lock and key right now, and will stay that way until I sort this thing out.
I'm really mainly pissed at myself for trusting the douche that sold them to me. I want to make his life miserable. I found out he has a felony in another state for similar behavor that still might be going thru the court system.
If I get an attorney involved, it will cost money, but it might be worth it to stop the douche from doing this shit again.

 

[Orange Juice]

When was the last time they had tags?

 

[gqchris]

Damn. This is what nightmares are made out of. I have done the “trust” system on a few boats and luckily they worked out and I got titles, but could have easily gone this way also.

It a shitty deal for you and the lienholder, both of them technicallly. Keep us posted!

I really dont think an attorney will do anything for a douchebag. But @boatpi may be able to shed light on any criminal charges.

 

[manxman]

When was the last time they had tags?

They are current 2023

 

[Orange Juice]

They are current 2023

Might have to pay off the loan to get the titles. Can you work with the bank?

I’d use them,

Email the guy who has title, “one of them got in an accident at the lake, and my insurance company won’t pay for the broken leg, or the damage too the other boat, until I show them the boat is in my name. How do you want to handle it? The rider was 18 y/o with no health insurance, the boat is still in your name? “

 

[manxman]

Might have to pay off the loan to get the titles. Can you work with the bank?

working with the actual owner, and he says he is going to pay them off, but haven't nailed down an actual time frame. He obviously doesn't have the money, but he has been the most communicative about everything and isn't trying to hide or ghost. I am trying to get the douche to pay what he owes to speed the process up. It's a cluster for sure. Meanwhile, i'm sitting on them , probably till next season until it all gets sorted. I could part them and recoup pretty much all my investment, but I have been trying to work it out the right way. I'm just getting impatient. It's not going to break me or anything, but it's the principal. I should just go ride them and not worry about it, but if i insure them and something happens, I get nothing.

 

[Ace in the Hole]

The only proof i have is my communication with the original owner. The loan is thru sheffield and because i'm not the owner, they won't tell me anything.
I will ask for proof. The guy even offered to put personal insurance on them, but not sure if it really matters at this point.

If you are going to sit on them....you need to have them somewhere that can't be tracked to you. If original owner tells the bank where they are you may have a repo order with a truck show up anytime....especially if they find out the situation. You are in a shit position no matter how you slice it, and the intermediary broke several laws.

 

[evantwheeler]

Original owner has titles, or he still owes the bank? Whats it cost to get the titles from whomever has them, $2400? I’d spend the money to get the titles, sell them legit, even at a loss, and move on with life. Otherwise, youre out a bunch more than $2400 if you cant recoup your purchase price + repair costs.

 

[RiverDave]

This is very similar to what Tim at ocm did to people at his dealership.. strangely the cops said if the new owners had legit contracts the vehicles were theirs to keep and the original owner had to figure it out with Tim..

Whole thing was crazy to me as I woulda thought it woulda had to go back to the original owner.. but because of contracts on both sides it didn’t.

I doubt the original owner or the fraud guy did any real contracts? What do you have in terms of that Bill of sale? Anything?

RD

 

[DarkHorseRacing]

You think that’s hard to deal with, have a shady boat mfg “sell” a boat you paid them to build, to someone else all the while all you have is the mso which they can simply write another to the other buyer.

We probably spent more on lawyers than the boat was worth but it was the principle and we took an asshole out of the game of defrauding others.

 

[HALLETT BOY]

Can you buy salvaged skis and transfer the good / working components to the salvage ones and register ? I’m assuming the salvage skis come with clean titles

 

[CoolCruzin]

Thought about that, and I agree, not sure what the end result would be for me. I know it would suck for the guy that holds the title. They are behind lock and key right now, and will stay that way until I sort this thing out.
I'm really mainly pissed at myself for trusting the douche that sold them to me. I want to make his life miserable. I found out he has a felony in another state for similar behavor that still might be going thru the court system.
If I get an attorney involved, it will cost money, but it might be worth it to stop the douche from doing this shit again.

Small claims court
No attorney needed and paper work minimal

 

[SKIDMARC]

Work out a deal with the owner and and get them paid off and get the pinks. That’s the only recourse I see.

 

[Radioactive]

Lien sale them, make sure the repair and storage charges cover what your out. You will either get them free and clear or your money.

 

[Deckin Around]

step 1- Remove the $3k engine you paid for.

 

[Eliminator21vdrive]

Lien sale them, make sure the repair and storage charges cover what your out. You will either get them free and clear or your money.

THIS ^^^^^^

 

[Mandelon]

The guy you bought them from committed fraud, but will any law enforcement be interested in pursuing it?

The original owner will want to keep his credit rating in tact so he will likely pay the skis off, but he is probably not able to do this quickly. It seems you both have a claim against the fraudulent seller. But as pointed out, he likely has no money anyway. It might be worth a call to whatever law enforcement agency handles this sort of thing. Perhaps a visit from a detective could put things into perspective for the fraudulent seller. That is if you could even get a an official to be interested.

If you try to do a lien sale, the owner will be notified and he will be less likely to work with you. Maybe try to work something out with the original owner so you can get titles more quickly. Split the costs or something? Then try to collect from the fraudster.

 

[Heylam]

My bet is that law enforcement will consider it a civil matter.

 

[stokerwhore]

is there a way to file a "mechanics lien"?

 

[calkid]

Offer the real owner half what the looser owes him to buy the title's. He'll probably jump on it.

 

[Dalton]

Isn’t AZ registration only? Wonder if you could register and use them, and as long as the original owner doesn’t report them stolen you’ll be fine? Unless a eager repo guys tracks them down

 

[Radioactive]

When you lien sale the "abandoned" seadoos "without" engines on a trailer on blocks. Either the lender or the registered owner is going to have to deal with it, the guy you paid is out of the picture at this point, short lien I think is 31 days. Stagger them, seedoo, then the trailer, the the other, make it confusing, maybe lien them in different area's.

 

[coolchange]

Aren’t you a shop or business of some kind?
As said lien them.
Take motor out and make them not whole.
Bank has priority but don’t want screwed up skis.
Caveat emptor. Sorry you’re in this mess

 

[Ace in the Hole]

Isn’t AZ registration only? Wonder if you could register and use them, and as long as the original owner doesn’t report them stolen you’ll be fine? Unless a eager repo guys tracks them down

Liens on watercraft are still tracked by the state..it’ll kink it up.

 

[RiverDave]

You think that’s hard to deal with, have a shady boat mfg “sell” a boat you paid them to build, to someone else all the while all you have is the mso which they can simply write another to the other buyer.

We probably spent more on lawyers than the boat was worth but it was the principle and we took an asshole out of the game of defrauding others.

Who was it?

 

[RiverDave]

My bet is that law enforcement will consider it a civil matter.

Even when it is criminal..

 

[Heylam]

Even when it is criminal..

My money says L.E. won’t pursue it.

 

[Bigbore500r]

So, I normally vet my purchases pretty good, but not sure what to do next.
I bought a pair of seadoos on a trailer for a good price. One was good and the other had engine problems. I was aware of the problems and willing to risk the purchase because I knew I could fix the problem and still be able to break even or be ahead on the value. The guy I bought them from said there was a loan that needed to be payed off, but would take a few weeks to get the title. I was okay with this, because it would give me a bit of time to fix what was broken. I held back $500 from the purchase and said i would pay when he produced the paperwork. I proceeded to spend money and fix the seadoo. It needed a motor rebuild to the tune of $3k. I knew this and accepted the risk. I cleaned both up and fixed up the trailer. They have current registration and are ready to ride.
Turns out, he didn't own them. He purchased them from the original owner, with an agreement to make payments till the loan was paid, then figured out that the broken one was worse than he could handle, so he quickly relisted them to sell and played dumb. When I got them, i found paperwork with the original owners info on it and was able to contact him. He owes more than they were worth. He only received part of the money from the other guy. He is still owed about $2400 towards the original purchase of the seadoo's.
The original owner has assured me that he will pay off the loan and eventually get me the titles, but it has already been a few months and I'm getting impatient. I have been in contact with the person I gave money to. He started to ghost me, but I was smart enough to take a picture of his ID and was able to track him down thru the internet. He won't talk to me, but he has slowly responded to texts. I pretty much told him that what he did was fraud and i wanted him to make me whole and pay for the repairs. He is back to playing hard to get. I have previous addresses, email addresses, and even found out were his parents live ($28 on the internet gets you allot of info)

What should i do?
Wait out the titles?
Sue the guy that sold them to me?
Part them out?
Not sure at this point

I understand asking them to get you the tittles (what you are owed) - but why are you also now going after him to pay for the repairs? You had said you knew one needed work and that was part of the deal.

Its a scummy deal, but maybe just settle for getting the titles?

 

[Shlbyntro]

Even when it is criminal..

My money says L.E. won’t pursue it.

because you're calling the wrong people. Title floating cheats the state out of their sales tax dollars, we all know how California feels about taxes. If you get the tax people involved they will be on it like white on rice.

honestly my opinion is to cut a deal with the titled owner to somehow get the titles now even if it means more money out of pocket and cut your losses, then enjoy them.

 

[Gonefishin5555]

offer to pay half of the loan amount and have the original owner pay the other half and sign over title to you. Its probably your cheapest best option. edit and ride the shit out of the skis to get some enjoyment out of them

 

[Good Stuff]

I understand asking them to get you the tittles (what you are owed) - but why are you also now going after him to pay for the repairs? You had said you knew one needed work and that was part of the deal.

Its a scummy deal, but maybe just settle for getting the titles?

I took it as “pay them off and provide the title or take them back, refund, and pay for the repair costs.”

 

[manxman]

The douche responded via text. He says he is working on it (has said this for 2 months)
I pretty much threatened legal action to get him motivated. I honestly think he doesn't know what to do and is hoping I will go away. I really don't want to let him off the hook.
The OG owner has been very responsive and even apologetic for the inconvenience. He has vowed to work on paying the loan off and getting me the tittles.
I want to believe him, but I'm skeptical. My easiest path is pretty much to wait it out, but I really don't want to sit on these things forever.
I can easily part them and get most all of my money back, but It would be a shame, because they are descent seadoos. 2020's with 34 and 50 hours on them and on a trailer. (not the best trailer) but Okay.
I have lien sale water craft before. It took about 6 months to do. If I do the lien, it will actually take more time and not really net me any different out come, and it will most likely screw over the OG owner. I don't really want to do that.
OG owner still owes about $7k to bank and has been making the payments, and is trying to chunk them down as quickly as possible. I think he thought he would have more time with the douche owners deal, then I came along.
The douche paid part to the og owner (not sure the exact amount) , but apparently still owes $2400.
I haven't offered the OG owner any money, because that is his deal with the other guy.

 

[steamin rice]

I'd just deal with the original owner, as the guy that you "bought" them from had no authority to sell them to you. If the original owner isn't moving forward to get this done, then perhaps you can pursue a lien sale and move on.

 

[mash on it]

Sounds like the original owner wanted to get out of the pwc's. And took the only offer he had. That's not your fault. As far as the second guy, he basically rented them for the money he gave.
Lien sale them.
That gives notice to the lien holder and they can decide if they want them back. $$$
Just be sure to have paperwork on towing and storage to cover the cost YOU have in them.
It's not personal. It's just business.

Dan'l

 

[pixrthis]

You will win in small claims but a judgement won’t pay the bank note off. It would be nice to have the judgement to attach it to his house if he has one although a BK will get rid of the judgement. Good luck

 

[Dunerking]

You think that’s hard to deal with, have a shady boat mfg “sell” a boat you paid them to build, to someone else all the while all you have is the mso which they can simply write another to the other buyer.

We probably spent more on lawyers than the boat was worth but it was the principle and we took an asshole out of the game of defrauding others.

I feel like this same practice happens/happened in the sand-car industry as well. Not saying all manufacturers do it but I know it went on.

 

[manxman]

should I hire an attorney and go for "pain and suffering" or "emotional distress"
Wonder what I can squeeze out of the douche!
I was thinking of small claims and maxing it out to $10k. I paid cash, and was supposed to get a bill of sale when the title came. I did take a picture of his ID though.
I was thinking because he already has a felony in Kentucky that is pending, I could really mess him up if I file for fraud.
It pretty much is fraud IMO.

 

[TimeBandit]

This thread is a great reminder to NEVER buy any vehicle without a title.

No bills of sale, no purchase contracts, only a title that matches the sellers I.D.

Period.

While RDP'ers have the cash, the buzz on the street is people don't have any. So going to court is like pissing into the wind.

It's a lot of stupid tax to pay, but we all pay some one way or another.

 

[manxman]

This thread is a great reminder to NEVER buy any vehicle without a title.

No bills of sale, no purchase contracts, only a title that matches the sellers I.D.

Period.

While RDP'ers have the cash, the buzz on the street is people don't have any. So going to court is like pissing into the wind.

It's a lot of stupid tax to pay, but we all pay some one way or another.

While I do somewhat agree with you (its always nice to have title in hand) allot of people finance, and I have done literally hundreds of deals with financed vehicles without a hitch. This is really only the second time I have ever had to deal with this. I will be fine and this will not end me buying and selling things, I just posted up to see what other people have done or would do in this situation.

 

[TimeBandit]

While I do somewhat agree with you (its always nice to have title in hand) allot of people finance, and I have done literally hundreds of deals with financed vehicles without a hitch. This is really only the second time I have ever had to deal with this. I will be fine and this will not end me buying and selling things, I just posted up to see what other people have done or would do in this situation.

I bought my wife a new car in February. I paid it off in March. VW still can't for what ever reason send me the title.

I don't "need" the title any time soon as we keep cars until the paint peels, but what should I do?

 

[Sherpa]

Where does the 2nd hand seller live?

 

[Dunerking]

Not to hijack the OP thread,but I’m considering a KTM 300 for my son that’s out of state and the seller paid cash for but only has the MSO. Is this equal to a title?

 

[mash on it]

Not to hijack the OP thread,but I’m considering a KTM 300 for my son that’s out of state and the seller paid cash for but only has the MSO. Is this equal to a title?

Yes, kinda.
MSO is the manufacturer statement of origin.
You need this to get a title. The bike hasn't been registered by a state yet. Often seen on motocross bikes.

Dan'l

 

[Dunerking]

Thanks Dan’s…feel a little better about trying to pursue the bike.

 

[rivrrts429]

Yes, kinda.
MSO is the manufacturer statement of origin.
You need this to get a title. The bike hasn't been registered by a state yet. Often seen on motocross bikes.

Dan'l

I’ve bought test bikes and test SxS’s from magazines with only an MSO. It’s a pain in the ass beyond a title but it’s always worked out. Just takes a little effort.