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Speed UTV take 3

alohajeff

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I guess the sky is not the limit for speed cars. I wonder if that is Heavy D in the copter.
That's HP Helicopters out of Redlands. Brad and the HP crew have their own type certificate for the UH60 that they do in-house.


Aloha
 

BIGRED9158

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That's HP Helicopters out of Redlands. Brad and the HP crew have their own type certificate for the UH60 that they do in-house.


Aloha
Yes they are right across the street from hanger 24 brewery I have seen this helicopter up close it’s bad ass
 

counterpart7

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Neat!

328843902_1363876047485963_8582332043333494810_n.jpg
 

MK1MOD0

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its a gear issue.
Id watch the video from Robby earlier this week as well as read the post from the Weddle rep.
They're doing some different heat treatment on them and then thickening the case.
Thanks for the reply. Hope they can iron it out quickly, and get back to production.
 

ZSTIV

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Thanks for the reply. Hope they can iron it out quickly, and get back to production.
We all know Robby, and his way of "marketing". LOL. I am just trying to keep everyone informed of what I see as an objective insider. I have no loyalties to any one brand (edit: I guess I do with Speed since I had a small hand in developing them, but I will gladly do what I can to improve any other brand that comes across my work bench).

The trans issue discovered last week was a surprise to all of us, but was not due to poor design, nor from shifting them. Since Robby said it in his video last night, I guess I can elaborate:

The housings were not the issue of the failure, the gear broke first, which wedged bits of gear teeth through the other gears and had enough force to push the shafts apart, splitting the cases. Robby saying they are adding material to the cases to strengthen them is really just an added benefit to prevent the cases from splitting like that and ruining the whole trans. Gears will eventually break over time and use, when they do finally let go, it is cheaper to not have to replace the entire case as we can just replace what is broken and repair the gearbox.

The gear breakage sucks. Robby called me immediately after the first one broke last week and we discussed. We had hoped it was a fluke failure based on what that transmission was subjected to. This was not a fault that Speed or Weddle could have known about on the variety of transmissions and diffs we have inspected since they came off the assembly line. The issue only became evident once subjected to that level of use. Real world testing will always find the weak links.

The good news is that it is somewhat of an easy fix, other than having to wait a bit longer for revised parts.

I will stand by that anyone who damages this trans because of shifting, is purely on the driver of the vehicle. It is a great feature of the gearbox, but requires knowledge of how to properly operate.

I'll sign off now, I need to get some more Pro-R and Can-Am prep work done before I head out to Hammertown this evening.

this is from the Weddle rep.

Again watch the video if you have time, they will replace all existing cars transmissions with Gen 2's and their warranty wont start till that happens.
It seems to like desert racing, just not bouncing off rocks in 4WD.
 

Bpracing1127

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We all know Robby, and his way of "marketing". LOL. I am just trying to keep everyone informed of what I see as an objective insider. I have no loyalties to any one brand (edit: I guess I do with Speed since I had a small hand in developing them, but I will gladly do what I can to improve any other brand that comes across my work bench).

The trans issue discovered last week was a surprise to all of us, but was not due to poor design, nor from shifting them. Since Robby said it in his video last night, I guess I can elaborate:

The housings were not the issue of the failure, the gear broke first, which wedged bits of gear teeth through the other gears and had enough force to push the shafts apart, splitting the cases. Robby saying they are adding material to the cases to strengthen them is really just an added benefit to prevent the cases from splitting like that and ruining the whole trans. Gears will eventually break over time and use, when they do finally let go, it is cheaper to not have to replace the entire case as we can just replace what is broken and repair the gearbox.

The gear breakage sucks. Robby called me immediately after the first one broke last week and we discussed. We had hoped it was a fluke failure based on what that transmission was subjected to. This was not a fault that Speed or Weddle could have known about on the variety of transmissions and diffs we have inspected since they came off the assembly line. The issue only became evident once subjected to that level of use. Real world testing will always find the weak links.

The good news is that it is somewhat of an easy fix, other than having to wait a bit longer for revised parts.

I will stand by that anyone who damages this trans because of shifting, is purely on the driver of the vehicle. It is a great feature of the gearbox, but requires knowledge of how to properly operate.

I'll sign off now, I need to get some more Pro-R and Can-Am prep work done before I head out to Hammertown this evening.

this is from the Weddle rep.

Again watch the video if you have time, they will replace all existing cars transmissions with Gen 2's and their warranty wont start till that happens.
It seems to like desert racing, just not bouncing off rocks in 4WD.
sorry, im not buying this. Gears wear out sure, but it takes a long time for that to happen. How many miles on this tranny before the "gear" broke? If gears are wearing out at say 2000 miles that is a major failure on Speeds part to have the tranny gone through for replacements before catastrophic failure. If this "race" car had 10k miles on it ill reverse my statement and say good life was met.

what vehicles do you own that "gears" wear out. Modern cars and trucks go 100K miles easy with proper maintenace and use. Race cars with full tilt power usually will make it a whole race.

I look at it this way. We could go 3-5 season on a 2D with 550 hp on a 2800# buggy before the ring and pinion would wear enough for replacement. If these trannys are llike that. get ready for big bills. Otherwise rzr, can am have failures too but not 100% of the vehciles have that failure. its usually do to driver error and or too much hp *tuned
 

702sandman

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We all know Robby, and his way of "marketing". LOL. I am just trying to keep everyone informed of what I see as an objective insider. I have no loyalties to any one brand (edit: I guess I do with Speed since I had a small hand in developing them, but I will gladly do what I can to improve any other brand that comes across my work bench).

The trans issue discovered last week was a surprise to all of us, but was not due to poor design, nor from shifting them. Since Robby said it in his video last night, I guess I can elaborate:

The housings were not the issue of the failure, the gear broke first, which wedged bits of gear teeth through the other gears and had enough force to push the shafts apart, splitting the cases. Robby saying they are adding material to the cases to strengthen them is really just an added benefit to prevent the cases from splitting like that and ruining the whole trans. Gears will eventually break over time and use, when they do finally let go, it is cheaper to not have to replace the entire case as we can just replace what is broken and repair the gearbox.

The gear breakage sucks. Robby called me immediately after the first one broke last week and we discussed. We had hoped it was a fluke failure based on what that transmission was subjected to. This was not a fault that Speed or Weddle could have known about on the variety of transmissions and diffs we have inspected since they came off the assembly line. The issue only became evident once subjected to that level of use. Real world testing will always find the weak links.

The good news is that it is somewhat of an easy fix, other than having to wait a bit longer for revised parts.

I will stand by that anyone who damages this trans because of shifting, is purely on the driver of the vehicle. It is a great feature of the gearbox, but requires knowledge of how to properly operate.

I'll sign off now, I need to get some more Pro-R and Can-Am prep work done before I head out to Hammertown this evening.
Sean on the gear that broke on the car that was flown out this morning was it a stronger material ? is The case the faulty item ? Or does it need a even stronger gear ? Just curious if adding more material to the case is the answer
 

ZSTIV

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sorry, im not buying this. Gears wear out sure, but it takes a long time for that to happen. How many miles on this tranny before the "gear" broke? If gears are wearing out at say 2000 miles that is a major failure on Speeds part to have the tranny gone through for replacements before catastrophic failure. If this "race" car had 10k miles on it ill reverse my statement and say good life was met.

what vehicles do you own that "gears" wear out. Modern cars and trucks go 100K miles easy with proper maintenace and use. Race cars with full tilt power usually will make it a whole race.

I look at it this way. We could go 3-5 season on a 2D with 550 hp on a 2800# buggy before the ring and pinion would wear enough for replacement. If these trannys are llike that. get ready for big bills. Otherwise rzr, can am have failures too but not 100% of the vehciles have that failure. its usually do to driver error and or too much hp *tuned
You don't have buy anything, especially the car if you don't want to.
This is straight from the horses mouth, we all knew the risk that a gen one of any drivetrain would possibly have issues. The best thing to do is what Robby has done, which is to fix it upfront and extended warranty until the new transmissions are in.
 

dirtslinger2

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sorry, im not buying this. Gears wear out sure, but it takes a long time for that to happen. How many miles on this tranny before the "gear" broke? If gears are wearing out at say 2000 miles that is a major failure on Speeds part to have the tranny gone through for replacements before catastrophic failure. If this "race" car had 10k miles on it ill reverse my statement and say good life was met.

what vehicles do you own that "gears" wear out. Modern cars and trucks go 100K miles easy with proper maintenace and use. Race cars with full tilt power usually will make it a whole race.

I look at it this way. We could go 3-5 season on a 2D with 550 hp on a 2800# buggy before the ring and pinion would wear enough for replacement. If these trannys are llike that. get ready for big bills. Otherwise rzr, can am have failures too but not 100% of the vehciles have that failure. its usually do to driver error and or too much hp *tuned
The gear didn't "wear" out, it broke, and if you read what an actual expert wrote "Sean, at Weddle" it was completely unexpected and they are going to change the heat treat on the gears.
 

Bpracing1127

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You don't have buy anything, especially the car if you don't want to.
This is straight from the horses mouth, we all knew the risk that a gen one of any drivetrain would possibly have issues. The best thing to do is what Robby has done, which is to fix it upfront and extended warranty until the new transmissions are in.
I will agree with that, there isnt much else to do but that. However, I feel like if they cut this corner and have faulty gearboxes, what else is faulty?

I want to be a fan and on paper the speed car is bad ass, however I have been nothing but disappointed to date. DNF every race that they have entered. Even public showings like SSSS are big let downs too.
 

Bpracing1127

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The gear didn't "wear" out, it broke, and if you read what an actual expert wrote "Sean, at Weddle" it was completely unexpected and they are going to change the heat treat on the gears.
i get gears break, but on every vehicle? my understanding is mult vehicle had the same transmission failures. Am I wrong there? When one gear breaks on one vehicle i say shit happens when it becomes a trend its not shit happens its someone fucked up
 

dirtslinger2

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i get gears break, but on every vehicle? my understanding is mult vehicle had the same transmission failures. Am I wrong there? When one gear breaks on one vehicle i say shit happens when it becomes a trend its not shit happens its someone fucked up
That sounds like exactly why they are changing the gears, not just letting it ride.
 

Bpracing1127

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What’s the weak link in the Pro R so far? I’m far from an expert but they look pretty stout.
lower shock mounts, toe links. those are the only problems i am seeing so far
 
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RVR SWPR

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Ya, because vehicles racing never break...
Pro R's broke, thought those were race ready as well!?
4 or 5 guys pushed that Can Am across the finish line yesterday for the fun of it. :)
Everybody that cannot be at Johnson Valley today and tomorrow should just sit back enjoy the excellent almost commercial free coverage of KOH. Amazing anything crosses the finish line. Right now 3 classes running,tomorrow even better.
Phuck all this negative bullshit.
 

702sandman

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What’s the weak link in the Pro R so far? I’m far from an expert but they look pretty stout.
I’ll be 100% honest. This car is so robust in every aspect is still amazes me every race. With that said there has only been a few “known” issues. The early shock/clevis failures seem to have been related to installing limit straps from top bolt to bottom bolt causing a tugging affect on where the shaft meets the lower fork. We have over 3000 race miles and have not had any issues with this and we are not limit strapped. I have seen several ball joint failures so I would highly recommend getting the stronger aftermarket ones from vendors, on our race car we swapped out the ball joints to spherical cups so we can run hardened pins instead of ball joints. we broke a axle in the King of the Hammers desert race and this was the first one I have heard of so I’m hoping it was just a fluke, we are not sure if a rock hit the clamp and we lost the boot then the star broke or the star broke and then we lost the boot. Out of the box these are the strongest cars made in my opinion.
 

JBZ

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4 or 5 guys pushed that Can Am across the finish line yesterday for the fun of it. :)
Everybody that cannot be at Johnson Valley today and tomorrow should just sit back enjoy the excellent almost commercial free coverage of KOH. Amazing anything crosses the finish line. Right now 3 classes running,tomorrow even better.
Phuck all this negative bullshit.
I saw at least 3 cars get pushed over the finish line ;)
 

Albacore

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What’s the weak link in the Pro R so far? I’m far from an expert but they look pretty stout.
Go see one of the dozen aftermarket parts or more and the videos from shock therapy their whole business reason valves around after market parts because stock parts don’t last. And they seem to be doing very well business wise.
 
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Outdrive1

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So it's just a quick fix? Order gears with a different Rockwell and new cases? Did they already have other cases? Or they build a new prototype and then a mold to build them? Are those sand cast? Billet? Mercury is the only place on the planet that makes Bravo drive gears, you'd think if it was that easy to make them harder they would fix the bravo issues with hp over 600. At this point no-one makes a replacement for their gears. I can't imagine this is an overnight deal. Sucks he's having issues.

That being said, I don't see any manufacturers that have a drive train that can handle 300hp.
 

Albacore

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I’ll be 100% honest. This car is so robust in every aspect is still amazes me every race. With that said there has only been a few “known” issues. The early shock/clevis failures seem to have been related to installing limit straps from top bolt to bottom bolt causing a tugging affect on where the shaft meets the lower fork. We have over 3000 race miles and have not had any issues with this and we are not limit strapped. I have seen several ball joint failures so I would highly recommend getting the stronger aftermarket ones from vendors, on our race car we swapped out the ball joints to spherical cups so we can run hardened pins instead of ball joints. we broke a axle in the King of the Hammers desert race and this was the first one I have heard of so I’m hoping it was just a fluke, we are not sure if a rock hit the clamp and we lost the boot then the star broke or the star broke and then we lost the boot. Out of the box these are the strongest cars made in my opinion.
I agree and I’m not trying to start any fights hear the Polaris is specifically the pro r do seem to be better. So if a lot of us on this thread agree then it only took them a dozen years or more to figure it out. Now you’ve got Robbie and his partners in a little over three years trying to speed up the process and come out with something that you don’t have to spend 40,000 more dollars on. They will have growing pains. I’m old enough to remember the Polaris is and how much of the growing pains they had to a point where I told my friends they couldn’t even come on any rides with me with her cars anymore. Unless we were sticking to a fire road.
 

Fishd00d

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What’s the weak link in the Pro R so far? I’m far from an expert but they look pretty stout.
Here are the issues I have seen and none of them are on a lot of vehicles:

Lower Balljoint when you hit a sharp edge HARD or land sideways on front wheel.
A couple primary clutches have broken, not sure what they were doing when so.
Some of the Fox LiveValve shocks have had some issues with the shaft breaking where it goes into the lower clevis, not sure what the exact issue is as some are fine.

Honestly thats the only breakage ive seen on the Pro Rs. I have 1200 miles on mine and a lot of hard Baja miles and I have had 0 issues, ive had 35's on it also since day 1 mile 0.
 

RVR SWPR

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I saw at least 3 cars get pushed over the finish line ;)
The energy & effort is incredible. I don’t care what broke on the Speed Car,calling in a chopper instead of a tow truck is amazing.
 

702sandman

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So the Pro R's that raced aren't race ready?
Id presume a BM Pro R is race ready.
Yes of course the race R‘s are race ready I’d hope lol. Some people’s idea of race ready is different than mine. I thought you were referring to a stock pro R being race ready like Robbie says the speeds are race ready. Yes a race car can break and does break all the time on the race course. BM is a great example of someone who has unlimited funds and even on his 1M Mason trucks he experiences breaks. I just wanted to clarify Polaris has never said the R is a race ready machine. There’s is cool stuff coming in the area soon
 

Albacore

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The energy & effort is incredible. I don’t care what broke on the Speed Car,calling in a chopper instead of a tow truck is amazing.
They were using helicopters a week ago out there I saw it while watching some other videos early on lifting what look like very heavy vehicles compared to the speed at least size wise. Some of that shit is so rough you just can’t get it out of there without breaking more shit in tow trucks in danger of the recovery crews.
 

Groper

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sorry, im not buying this. Gears wear out sure, but it takes a long time for that to happen. How many miles on this tranny before the "gear" broke? If gears are wearing out at say 2000 miles that is a major failure on Speeds part to have the tranny gone through for replacements before catastrophic failure. If this "race" car had 10k miles on it ill reverse my statement and say good life was met.

what vehicles do you own that "gears" wear out. Modern cars and trucks go 100K miles easy with proper maintenace and use. Race cars with full tilt power usually will make it a whole race.

I look at it this way. We could go 3-5 season on a 2D with 550 hp on a 2800# buggy before the ring and pinion would wear enough for replacement. If these trannys are llike that. get ready for big bills. Otherwise rzr, can am have failures too but not 100% of the vehciles have that failure. its usually do to driver error and or too much hp *tuned
I'll agree that these gears in question had to have broken, no way they were worn out unless tolerances were way off to begin with, also weren't these new production cars with less than a few hundred miles ?

And kudo's to you for getting 3-5 seasons on a 2D's R&P lol that's a record in our group.
2d's were only rated for 300hp, my 550hp 2400# buggy would explode a 2D every season the whoop's killed them.
 
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