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WHAT WOULD U DO...

t&y

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As stated, Cali has the castle doctrine. You will face a shit stream of hate for actually defending yourself, but you would be legally "Okay".

Individual choice of course, I'd shoot if my backdrop was clear. Nobody has any reason to be in my house univited.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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California has a castle law. You have no duty to retreat. if someone is inside your occupied dwelling it is already assumed that they mean to do you harm. You have the legal right to shoot first and ask questions later.

Legally yes. Civilly, not necessarily..

That is true, my mistake. I was thinking of civil repercussions in that response.
 

RiverDave

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The way my house is laid out our room is off to one side and my kids are all on a hallway. If someone was in my house unless they were right by the front door they would pretty much be between me and my kids. We have a monster sized dog though that is pretty scary looking and crazy protective of the kids, I wouldn't think someone would more than a few feet before meeting her. If they did however make it into the house before the dog was on them it would compound the problem. The dog would unintentionally chase a perp into the hallway where my kids are and most likely into one of their rooms with the door shutting behind them. I have run the scenarios in my head and that is a scary prospect in my head.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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This is true. Legal shootings are taken to civil court all the time.

In the CCW class I took they kind of when down a rathole with situations like this.. Like if a intruder came in an an open door at night, it is not necessarily breaking an entering, and as such he may not be considered a "threat". The other side of the coin was that it could be perfectly OK to shoot someone in the back as they were running away if they were a threat.

I am not a law expert, and I suspect the discussion was to give pause about shoot first ask questions later from a civil perspective.
 

Gelcoater

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The way my house is laid out our room is off to one side and my kids are all on a hallway. If someone was in my house unless they were right by the front door they would pretty much be between me and my kids. We have a monster sized dog though that is pretty scary looking and crazy protective of the kids, I wouldn't think someone would more than a few feet before meeting her. If they did however make it into the house before the dog was on them it would compound the problem. The dog would unintentionally chase a perp into the hallway where my kids are and most likely into one of their rooms with the door shutting behind them. I have run the scenarios in my head and that is a scary prospect in my head.

image.jpg

So have something special waiting for them in the kids room. :cool

Multiple dogs.:thumbsup

Multiple dog shit now too. So Dave starts paying someone to come clean up the shit; stimulating the local economy and kids rooms are covered with individual protection programs.
It's a win, win, win.:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup
 

oldschool

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If any of these scenarios turn deadly, you will want to call your attorney right after you call 911.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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View attachment 568505

So have something special waiting for them in the kids room. :cool

Multiple dogs.:thumbsup

Multiple dog shit now too. So Dave starts paying someone to come clean up the shit; stimulating the local economy and kids rooms are covered with individual protection programs.
It's a win, win, win.:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup

Can+t+believe+the+maker+of+this+gifset+actually+spelled+benatska+_ed406b6c31320f612262e6ef5a5c6b1b.jpg


And here I thought you were going to send your dog in with a 1911 to shoot the intruders.
 

Carlson-jet

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Is this a good time to bring back up the subject of the 10-20 lbs. Chemical Fire extinguisher? :skull
 

t&y

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In the CCW class I took they kind of when down a rathole with situations like this.. Like if a intruder came in an an open door at night, it is not necessarily breaking an entering, and as such he may not be considered a "threat". The other side of the coin was that it could be perfectly OK to shoot someone in the back as they were running away if they were a threat.

I am not a law expert, and I suspect the discussion was to give pause about shoot first ask questions later from a civil perspective.


I think they are confussing specific crimes comitted vs your legal rights within your house. Unfortunately none of that has anything to do with what someone can sue you for. California is a scarry place for people willing to exercise their rights regarding self defense or defense of others.
 

Abc123

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"Spider just caught a couple flies"

[video=youtube;a1f2kjXiGpw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1f2kjXiGpw[/video]
 

nowski

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First I would call 911. I'd wait for the cops to roll up, hand the intruder an unloaded hand gun and force him out of the house. I'd let the cops handle the situation from there...
 

BHC Vic

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I think they are confussing specific crimes comitted vs your legal rights within your house. Unfortunately none of that has anything to do with what someone can sue you for. California is a scarry place for people willing to exercise their rights regarding self defense or defense of others.

Reminds me of liar liar. I think it was that movie. Might be wrong though
 

j21black

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In the CCW class I took they kind of when down a rathole with situations like this.. Like if a intruder came in an an open door at night, it is not necessarily breaking an entering, and as such he may not be considered a "threat". The other side of the coin was that it could be perfectly OK to shoot someone in the back as they were running away if they were a threat.

I am not a law expert, and I suspect the discussion was to give pause about shoot first ask questions later from a civil perspective.

My CCW class teacher was an Internal Affairs officer. Taught classes on weekends. I took it in NC (required to obtain) and they had just changed the "must flee" law in the state to stand your ground. In NC you cannot make a citizens arrest or hold anyone at gunpoint waiting on the police to arrive or risk getting hit with a kidnapping charge or some along those lines depending on the DA, etc...Doubt that would happen but the laws allows for it.....I asked what he would do in this type of setting and his response was "Shoot, Shoot to kill and make sure they are dead"

He also brought attention to the folks in the class who said, they'd make sure the intruder heard them "Rack" a shotgun. Why do that, he said. It is your house, chances are you know the layout and they don't. You have just given away your location and and evened the playing field to a degree. He passed it off as utter nonsense to do that.

On the civil side, it depends on the state. Some have laws on the books stating you can't be sued civilly for a justified shooting in the eyes of the law. Depends on where you are and I suggest learning the laws in your district. Having said that, even if it came down to something in civil court, the protection of my families lives is more important to me then someone suing me in court for any amount of money.

IMO - Join the NRA, if you are ever in something this deep, they have the means to help you out if they choose to do so. Also, the police are going to want to question you. Tell them you want to tell the story, but not without your legal council present. Nothing more outside of Yes, I shoot the prep, he broke into my house and I was/felt threatened. So what if you have to spend a night in jail if they arrest you immediately afterwards. Not sure I'd want to stay in the house anyway.
 

rvrrun

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Sorry about caps im almost blind makes it easy to read and see............

I know, I was just being a smart ass. I have the same problem, on iOS pinch and zoom saves me, and on the Mac I can use a modifier key and zoom with the scroll wheel (really hand on the Mac that runs the TV).

...now, back to your regularly scheduled thread
 

LargeOrangeFont

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My CCW class teacher was an Internal Affairs officer. Taught classes on weekends. I took it in NC (required to obtain) and they had just changed the "must flee" law in the state to stand your ground. In NC you cannot make a citizens arrest or hold anyone at gunpoint waiting on the police to arrive or risk getting hit with a kidnapping charge or some along those lines depending on the DA, etc...Doubt that would happen but the laws allows for it.....I asked what he would do in this type of setting and his response was "Shoot, Shoot to kill and make sure they are dead"

He also brought attention to the folks in the class who said, they'd make sure the intruder heard them "Rack" a shotgun. Why do that, he said. It is your house, chances are you know the layout and they don't. You have just given away your location and and evened the playing field to a degree. He passed it off as utter nonsense to do that.

On the civil side, it depends on the state. Some have laws on the books stating you can't be sued civilly for a justified shooting in the eyes of the law. Depends on where you are and I suggest learning the laws in your district. Having said that, even if it came down to something in civil court, the protection of my families lives is more important to me then someone suing me in court for any amount of money.

IMO - Join the NRA, if you are ever in something this deep, they have the means to help you out if they choose to do so. Also, the police are going to want to question you. Tell them you want to tell the story, but not without your legal council present. Nothing more outside of Yes, I shoot the prep, he broke into my house and I was/felt threatened. So what if you have to spend a night in jail if they arrest you immediately afterwards. Not sure I'd want to stay in the house anyway.

Not arguing with you.. but the prospect of them hearing you rack the shotgun and fleeing, vs. you getting the jump on them and shooting them dead in your home.. I'll take the former every time.

I'd rather fire a warning shot into my ceiling before I get eyes on them then start a gunfight in my living room. In broad terms, they are there to rob you.. They don't want to get caught or get dead.
 

j21black

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Not arguing with you.. but the prospect of them hearing you rack the shotgun and fleeing, vs. you getting the jump on them and shooting them dead in your home.. I'll take the former every time.

I'd rather fire a warning shot into my ceiling before I get eyes on them then start a gunfight in my living room. In broad terms, they are there to rob you.. They don't want to get caught or get dead.

To each his own...I'm only giving suggestions as handed to me....They are only there to rob you is an assumption at best and not an assumption I'm willing to concede if ever put in this setting....Some of them do not care and may not be there to just Rob you...

He also told the class what he thought about firing warning shot as that was suggested by others.....

It's your life/family/home to protect the best way you see fit under any circumstance and I'm not going to tell you how to go about it, just relaying information as provided to our class, and some thoughts I've put together after reading many first hand accounts from people who have been in exactly this type of setting in the course of their lives to give folks something to think about.

Let's hope none of us are ever in a position to have to act, only discuss possibilities.
 

C-2

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Regarding the civil liability inside your home - yet another reason to have a $1-2MM liability umbrella in place.

Let the lawyers crunch the numbers and put a dollar value on the dirtbags's life.
 

Gelcoater

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Regarding the civil liability inside your home - yet another reason to have a $1-2MM liability umbrella in place.

Let the lawyers crunch the numbers and put a dollar value on the dirtbags's life.

A wood chipper sounds like a less expensive route. :)
 

RiverDave

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To each his own...I'm only giving suggestions as handed to me....They are only there to rob you is an assumption at best and not an assumption I'm willing to concede if ever put in this setting....Some of them do not care and may not be there to just Rob you...

He also told the class what he thought about firing warning shot as that was suggested by others.....

It's your life/family/home to protect the best way you see fit under any circumstance and I'm not going to tell you how to go about it, just relaying information as provided to our class, and some thoughts I've put together after reading many first hand accounts from people who have been in exactly this type of setting in the course of their lives to give folks something to think about.

Let's hope none of us are ever in a position to have to act, only discuss possibilities.

I think we kinda think similar about this.. I'd rather get the jump on them, but again unlikely in my home since I have LED strips everywhere as night lights.

All said I'd rather not pull the trigger at all, but I'd shoot the fucking guy before I fixed a roof tile if we are being honest..

I'm not racist, but I have no love for the Methican Americans.
 

johnnyC

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not being critical of anyones posts, unless you are under an immediate life threat you don't want to shoot someone, you have to look it as killing this thief that is trying to take your tv,sterio etc worth the attorneys fees unjustified law suits and putting yourself under the scrutiny of the police and the justice system, your stuff is replaceable your time mental well being is not, I have a CA CCW and do carry and its a big responsibility because if you take a life are you going to be able to live with it long term and the second thoughts. What happens you shoot someone in your house and as you fire he turns his back to flee and takes one in the back, then what? caution is the rule.
 

Rajobigguy

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It's not that I have any moral dilemma about shooting an intruder but it would be my last resort , mainly because I don't want to clean up the mess.
 

milkmoney

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If u r not wanted or invited in my house the guns come out as we live in the country at the end of a dirt road

So yes if need to[emoji202] [emoji4] [emoji106]
 

Ballyhoo

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The laws on this subject can be confusing. There is no way to give definitive advice as each situation is unique, each homeowners life experiences, training and beliefs are different. Most folks can comment off the cuff as to how they would react but it just isn't that easy. Without some advance training that includes legalities, firearms and some basic tactics, you will find out how you will react, the moment you are put in that situation. If you have or wish to have firearms in your home or on your person, your best bet is too prepare yourself the best you can for the "oh sh$t" moment. Your ability to quickly react under stress and assess the situation will be King. People who carry guns for a living, solve 99.9% of conflicts without using deadly force. Many things can assist; alarms never hurt, dogs can be a good alarm but dont count on them to jump into attack mode, good locks, outdoor lighting etc...
If you do choose having a firearm, make a good choice based on input from pros. Get something that you can actually shoot with proficiency. Handguns are great but if you are going into a gunfight, you take a rifle.
These types of incidents where bad guys are in your home happen but it is rare. Just be realistic about your knowledge and training level before you decide to escalate things. Other options might be available.
 

460

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Feared for my mine and my families life.

Way our house is laid out our room is last on the hall way. If it's not clear I'm not shooting because of the kids rooms. We have dogs that will let us know someone is in the house
 

t&y

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Another thing to think about guys is how far a bullet will travel through walls. Believe it or not, my duty ammo 9mm (Handgun) will travel farther through walls then my duty ammo .223 (AR-15). It has to do with the specific bullets/ammo we use. You DO NOT want to be taking shots with your family on the other side of the wall unless you are VERY good at what you do.
 
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Icky

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Another thing to think about guys is how far a bullet will travel through walls. Believe it or not, my duty ammo 9mm (Handgun) will travel farther through walls then my duty ammo .223 (AR-15). It has to do with the specific bullets/ammo we use. You DO NOT want to be taking shots with your family on the other side of the wall unless you are VERY good at what you do.

I was just looking that up due to the post above about using a rifle. I would be more worried of the 223 ammo penatration than any of my federal HST ammo out of my hand guns.... Seems like I need to look into this more.
 

Ballyhoo

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The AR platform is ideal if you can pull it off. The 556/223 round will not over penetrate if you get the right one.
 

t&y

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I was just looking that up due to the post above about using a rifle. I would be more worried of the 223 ammo penatration than any of my federal HST ammo out of my hand guns.... Seems like I need to look into this more.

It has to do with the specific type of .223. Soft tip hollow point will not ballup as bad when hitting drywall like our hollow point 9mm. They are both meant for human flesh and have great reaction going into bodies. But if you hit drywall first the hollow point 9mm basically turns into ball point practice ammo and will just keep traveling with out opening up and shredding.
 

CoolCruzin

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With my laser on the gun I would take a head shot .
 

was thatguy

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I grew up in Alaska shooting everything from AR's to mini's to HK91, mac's and virtually every hunting rifle.
Even so I consider myself to be completely "untrained" in the use of a handgun for home defense.
(Even though I have shot them my whole life, and had a consultant lay out my alarm and procedure for clearing the house)

Unless you are a LEO or military trained you are very likely going to fail in your efforts...IMO.
It doesn't matter how good you are with your 9 or .40 at the range.
You hear something that wakes you up, you are faced with this "decision" within 30 seconds or less presumably.

"Stray" bullets are what will happen.
This is why I have the mossberg dedicated as my home defense choice.

Spray is better, with less chance of carry.

That's just my thoughts though.
 

COCA COLA COWBOY

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I have an AK ready to go. Light on, it's on!

Funny thing, years ago when I first met my wife I cam home at like 3am drunk as a skunk. To set the scene, it was 2009 and I couldn't short sale my house so the 4200SF house was vacant except for the master bedroom and kitchen area. All lights were out and as I walked down the hallway I heard the ratchet of a shotgun. I screamed..."babe, put that fucking gun down." Being in the other side is scary shit. Proud of my girlfriend at the time though.
 

Icky

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I have an AK ready to go. Light on, it's on!

Funny thing, years ago when I first met my wife I cam home at like 3am drunk as a skunk. To set the scene, it was 2009 and I couldn't short sale my house so the 4200SF house was vacant except for the master bedroom and kitchen area. All lights were out and as I walked down the hallway I heard the ratchet of a shotgun. I screamed..."babe, put that fucking gun down." Being in the other side is scary shit. Proud of my girlfriend at the time though.

Lol I don't walk in my house unannounced for that same reason. Although there is no racking warning in my house:yikes
 

Icky

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The AR platform is ideal if you can pull it off. The 556/223 round will not over penetrate if you get the right one.

It has to do with the specific type of .223. Soft tip hollow point will not ballup as bad when hitting drywall like our hollow point 9mm. They are both meant for human flesh and have great reaction going into bodies. But if you hit drywall first the hollow point 9mm basically turns into ball point practice ammo and will just keep traveling with out opening up and shredding.
I more worry about her, she doesn't have enough time on the AR to use it for self defense. The only time she's shot it was right before Christmas, before that she was afraid of it. After she shot it though she wanted her own.


Now that it's featureless she doesn't like the thordson stock compared to the pistol grip configuration it used to have.
 

DaveC

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Some perspective on civil cases.

A neighbor had an intruder literally kick down his sliding glass door and make entry. It was late at night and they were asleep. Intruder was shot once inside the house. But he lived.

Turned out intruder was a drunk kid that broke into the wrong house. He meant to kick down the door of a friend who lived on the next block over.

DA did not press charges.

Shooter was sued by shootee. Case went to a jury who ruled shooter was 49% liable. :eek:thumbsdown. Evidently the attorney argued that the shooter should have identified the 6'2" man was not threat in the pitch black even after he kicked down the door. :rolleyes

Point being that shooter was very close to losing the civil case in a situation that was ruled a legal shooting by the DA.

Make sure your insurance policy is paid up before pulling the trigger.
 

CoolCruzin

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Some perspective on civil cases.

A neighbor had an intruder literally kick down his sliding glass door and make entry. It was late at night and they were asleep. Intruder was shot once inside the house. But he lived.

Turned out intruder was a drunk kid that broke into the wrong house. He meant to kick down the door of a friend who lived on the next block over.

DA did not press charges.

Shooter was sued by shootee. Case went to a jury who ruled shooter was 49% liable. :eek:thumbsdown. Evidently the attorney argued that the shooter should have identified the 6'2" inch man was not threat in the pitch black even after he kicked down the door. :rolleyes

Point being that shooter was very close to losing the civil case in a situation that was ruled a legal shooting by the DA.

Make sure your insurance policy is paid up before pulling the trigger.

Dead men tell no lies. Shoot to kill
 

rrrr

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Shooter was sued by shootee. Case went to a jury who ruled shooter was 49% liable. :eek:thumbsdown. Evidently the attorney argued that the shooter should have identified the 6'2" inch man was not threat in the pitch black even after he kicked down the door. :rolleyes

That's a great example of the mentality people have these days. Fucking juries hand out OP's money like it's candy.

Have you ever noticed when a bus owned by the metro transportation authority in your city is involved in a minor accident, every sonofabitch on the bus is transported with "neck and back injuries"?

Here in Dallas we call that winning the Oak Cliff Lottery. Oak Cliff is our East LA.

:grumble: :rolleyes
 

Old Texan

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Not arguing with you.. but the prospect of them hearing you rack the shotgun and fleeing, vs. you getting the jump on them and shooting them dead in your home.. I'll take the former every time.

I'd rather fire a warning shot into my ceiling before I get eyes on them then start a gunfight in my living room. In broad terms, they are there to rob you.. They don't want to get caught or get dead.

Not disagreeing as you have your plan in accordance to your beliefs, but in my opinion you really don't know their capabilities or what there intent may be, other than they are criminals in your home to rob you or worse. Too many breakins end tragically to not react for a worse case scenario.

That being said, I still would stay in a safe a position as possible and hope for them to leave, but if it came to the point of direct face to face contact, "Bnag" is the correct course of action to preserve you and your family.

I'd never assume the perps to be anything less than a life threat at any point.
 

Old Texan

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The laws on this subject can be confusing. There is no way to give definitive advice as each situation is unique, each homeowners life experiences, training and beliefs are different. Most folks can comment off the cuff as to how they would react but it just isn't that easy. Without some advance training that includes legalities, firearms and some basic tactics, you will find out how you will react, the moment you are put in that situation. If you have or wish to have firearms in your home or on your person, your best bet is too prepare yourself the best you can for the "oh sh$t" moment. Your ability to quickly react under stress and assess the situation will be King. People who carry guns for a living, solve 99.9% of conflicts without using deadly force. Many things can assist; alarms never hurt, dogs can be a good alarm but dont count on them to jump into attack mode, good locks, outdoor lighting etc...
If you do choose having a firearm, make a good choice based on input from pros. Get something that you can actually shoot with proficiency. Handguns are great but if you are going into a gunfight, you take a rifle.
These types of incidents where bad guys are in your home happen but it is rare. Just be realistic about your knowledge and training level before you decide to escalate things. Other options might be available.

Last year our gated subdivision and the adjoining town was having a rash of breakins, vehicle breakins, and general thievery. All were taking place between midnight and daylight. Residents were scared, frustrated, and mad. LE was on things but the perps were disappearing into wooded areas they apparently knew well. Suspects were being watched, but there seemed to be a group/tweaker gang involved and nothing could be proven.

The perps would often steal bikes and ride the streets and beakin as they went from one end to the other. A neighbor on the street behind my home heard them in his garage and armed with a pistol, go the drop on two of them. He had dead aim and was mentally clearing the background to his neighbor when the bolted out a side door and ran. He stood down in relief and was really shaken up at the microseconds he had been from shooting.

He told this story at a neighborhood meeting several days later. I know him fairly well and could see in his eyes how disturbed this had left him. Sadly a resident loudmouth had to comment on how if it had been hiom, they'd be dead. Kind of accusing the guy of not shooting when he had the chance. Just a complete idiot jerkoff opinion from an idiot. This same idiot had been blaming LE for not having caught the perps. Same idiot that had recklessly left a .40 cal pistol in his unlocked truck as he was busy and just forgot it. Then had the audacity to blame LE that his pistol had been stolen and the perps were now likely armed.......:rolleyes

With clowns out there like our subdivision idiot, it makes LE's job harder and law suits more likely by fools......
 
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